SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Scicar. I'm Kate, your host and Scicar SciKick. And today we're joined by Erica Escalante. And if you're not already following her in the cafe operator, you need to make that change now. Erica is an incredible resource for cafe owners, but what I love most is how honest and clear she is. She has this way of cutting through all the noise and getting right to the thing you actually need to hear. I think Erica is absolutely incredible, and I'm so excited that we just spend some time with her today. So why don't you grab your favorite cup of coffee and let's get right into it. I know that you started in the coffee industry pretty young as a teenager, and then you became a cafe owner at just 21, right? What did you know about getting into a business and what did you have absolutely no idea about?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Oh my gosh. I knew almost nothing. Um I, you know what's interesting. I think that like I've obviously always been very responsible and driven and that type of girly at work. And so in the cafe, I usually was very responsible. I was very careful with money. I was, you know, tried to be organized, tried to really understand operations. I'm very fast. I'm a very fast worker. So I've always taken a lot of pride in that. And so, as far as the service part and the day-to-day part in the coffee shop, that part was not a secret to me at all. I knew it very, very well, which is probably why um I even thought I could open a coffee shop in the first place. Um, I also knew a lot about bookkeeping um because my mom was a bookkeeper growing up. So I had a lot of knowledge on books. Um, at the time, I had already owned a side hustle business with my ex-husband at the time. We had a mobile windshield repair business. So we would repair like little chips and cracks, and um, so I like would take the phone calls, the client calls, I would book the insurance for it, you know, all of this process, and I could keep our books and I understood expenses and income and that kind of basic level. Anything else about a business, I had no idea, including how to manage money well. Like I had never been good at money, never good at managing money. That's one of the hardest things for me as a cafe owner, and because I didn't really have any skill sets around it. I knew nothing about being an employer. That was completely new to me, and all the laws that have to go with that. I didn't know what HR was, you know, at all. And then um, you know, even just um some of the legality stuff, the legal things of running a business, um, leadership, I didn't know enough about. Those were probably my biggest deficits. And even just, I guess I forgot to say, like the operational budgeting, the like the spending, the building a company, having profit at the end of the day, knew nothing about any of that.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

And like coffee has kind of taken you in a few different directions since opening the coffee shop. And now you're more in a consulting role. How is it being on the other side of it now?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

You know, uh I will tell a story about that. Like I I I was always a really messy kid, messy individual. Like my room was always crazy, and I definitely have ADHD, and I think that contributed to it. Um, and my room would get really, really bad at certain points, and my mom would just pick a Saturday and she'd be like, We're cleaning your room today, and she would essentially help me clean up my room and reset the whole room, and she would make sure we did it all together, and it really did help me a lot. Like it, if it was just left up to me, I would never get it all done. It was too overwhelming, um, it was too much. And so just that act of her like helping me clean up everything, reset everything, that's exactly how I feel now because I had a business, right? Like I had the struggle of 10 years of owning a company and and the overwhelm of all of it. And no one could help me, really, because you know, every every person I knew was a cafe owner, or they knew nothing about actually being a cafe owner. And so it's very isolating and and I was doing okay, but there's so much mess always. In any company, there's mess somewhere, and it is overwhelming to try to find the time to fix it, especially when you don't have the skill set or the perspective you need, right? And so even as I came out of cafe ownership and became employee, I was head of retail and director of operations. I saw my job as if I'm coming in and helping you clean up your room and organize everything and put it in a good system for you to maintain it ongoing. And so that's just what I've continued to do. But I realized I didn't want to just do it for one company. I want to do it for any company, every company, you know. And at some point as well, I gotta leave you to it, you know, to do your system. I don't want to stay and maintain the system. That's not where my skill set is. My skill set is coming in and cleaning everything up and getting really tidy and then being able to move on.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

That's kind of exciting too, that you get to see multiple businesses too. So, what is it like being able to see like business to business to business? Are you seeing that there's obvious trends in the coffee industry that, like, yeah, we don't really know how to manage finances? Like, that's not us as an industry. We're not great at that. Or are there other patterns that you see just working with a lot of different businesses?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yes. Oh my gosh. I think it's the the best part of my job is being able to see so many different types of businesses behind the curtain. Um, in the last two and a half years, I've worked with I think 32 businesses now. I just got my 32nd. And this is an intimate work, you know. And when I'm talking about 32 companies, I've seen all of their penals, you know, I've seen their back-end systems, I've seen um I know about their team culture intimately, you know, and yeah, there are absolutely trends. Managing finances is one of the hardest things to do. And um, it is one of the hardest things to accomplish, especially if you don't have a budget for it, you know, um, or a know-how about it. And so um the other biggest trend I'm seeing across the board is that team culture is very hard, very hard to make a great team culture. Um, our workforce has never needed as much support as it does right now, right? And I think honestly, I think it comes from our education system, you know, that like kids and teenagers are not being as educated, like not getting as much from the educational system. They're they're smart, you know. All human beings I think are smart, you know, but they weren't given as much as we have been given in the past. And so they do need a lot of support in the workplace, and that team culture, putting on that team culture of achieving, you know, things, doing a good job, being problem solvers, is I think has never been as difficult as it is right now. Um, other trends, of course, is just supply chain management, right? Like there is just not enough distributors, and I think food and beverage are both, you know, across the board, restaurants, everyone is struggling with this, but there's just not as many suppliers as they as there were. You know, a lot of businesses have been acquired up into large corporations or they've closed down because of how hard everything has been over the last few years, and so it's really difficult when you're trying to set your prices and you're trying to get creative with your pricing for your customers, but you only have like one or two choices when it comes to distributors to give you supplies. Wow, it is really that one's hard. And I think that the last thing that I've seen across the board is I don't think we've done a good job in this industry of developing leaders. I think that um us as cafe owners and operators, as bosses, that maybe we're struggling as leaders, you know, because we're overwhelmed or whatever, but we don't have the time to feed in and make new leaders. And that is a big, big miss because leaders don't happen overnight. They need to be developed, they need to be mentored, they need to be taught. And that's just not going on as much as it used to. I think maybe because the generational gaps, maybe because of how hard everything has been, um, maybe because our generation of cafe owners is young too. Like most cafe owners I know are in our 30s and 40s. Like we're not the older, wiser ones. Yeah. So um, you know, so that's one other thing. One other thing I see is just like we want, we need better managers. We need to develop more responsibility across the board in the workforce. And and it's just a struggle across the board.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. It's so cool hearing your perspective on these 32 businesses because, like we've been talking about, typically when you're in the coffee industry, you see your business very well. And like maybe you go to a different one. But a lot of people like stay in their lane or stay in their coffee shop. And so seeing these trends like can be very easy to miss. Like the fact that coffee has boomed so much in the US in the last few decades, like, yeah, it does make sense that a lot of the cafe owners are young, like they're all in their 30s and 40s. That makes sense. Um, I actually don't know that many cafe owners are even roasters that are like older than that. So it's like a pretty young generation that's moving this industry. All of it's so curious, but I'm like, that's something I've never thought of is like I really haven't met that many people that are older than me doing this. And what does that say about like what kind of leaders or where we're in in our careers, how much we have learned or haven't learned, and the mentors that we've had before us.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And even um some of my, I mean, I know a few, right? They're of course they're there. I I know a lot of them. Um, but even just some of my clients who are in their 40s, 50s, or 60s, they just started their business within the last five or so years, you know, like most of this just started happening. So even though they're a little bit older and have a lot of wisdom in other industries, they don't have much wisdom when it comes to coffee, you know, and especially leading the employees, leading operations. And so they're still very young in their leadership when it comes to cafes. Um yeah, it's very, it's very fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

So it's an industry of a bunch of babies. We're all baby leaders.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

We're all a bunch of babies.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

What do you do with that? What it like as an industry, I think that there's so much growth that we want, right? Like my Instagram is full of how to talk about producers that you work with, when you should be talking about your producers, when you shouldn't be talking about your producers, how you should pay people along the industry, how to pay baristas better, how to build more sustainable economies throughout the industry. So, like these really big picture moments, I feel is what's flooding my Instagram right now. And these really big ideas to change this industry that we're in for the better. But then there's on that micro level of, but how do I make my coffee shop better? And if we have these obstacles in front of us, like what's a good starting place for someone that's like, I can relate to everything you're talking about, but I don't even know where to start.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

There, I do think there is a method, like a pathway that works, you know. And one of the first things I really look at is finances, right? Because it's something just between you and your computer that you can do at night, you know, in the wee hours of the morning when people are not bothering you and you're determined to grow, you know. Like I think that um, you know, we're hustlers, we're entrepreneurs, we're trying to work, you know, and everyone's calling us during the day and we have to pick up stuff and put it down and pick it up again, you know, literally. Like that's most of the job of a cafe owner. Um, so um, you know, I start with finances first because it's something that you can really like sit down and work on like quietly in those moments where you might lose a little sleep, but it's worth to try, you know. And so that's why I focus so much on education, education and understanding of the finances, because then once you see the finances, then you can really have a clear vision of what your goals are and how where you're gonna start first, you know. So it usually goes into finances, which means getting like your books right, but also getting your register system right. There's some messy register systems, it's a huge problem if you're trying to analyze what your business should be doing and how to make it better. And it's like if I can't easily within two seconds understand how many lattes you sold last month, there's a problem, you know. And so that data collection, that's also something you can do late at night, you know, when no one's watching and no one's calling you. And like if you want to take, let's just say this week you spent you lost five hours of sleep, but you improved a major thing in your finances for your business, right? That's that's what I'm trying to hit at, you know, and um, and so that's where I start. So it's like PLs, your register system, then you can create your goals. And usually you can still start with finances, like costing out your menus, setting the right prices, menu strategy, menu design, all of these structural changes that have nothing to do with managing people, which means they're easy. Again, it's just you and your computer. It's you yourself and you, you know, and Canva and Squid and Google Sheets. Like y'all should have a party and just um me and my Google Sheets.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Party and the Sheets.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Um yeah, we you know, then it's like when you have that structural stuff, then it's all about team culture because you know exactly what you need to do and where you need to be, and how your team needs to help you, you know. And that's the part that gets really hard because you know, you against you is hard, but you against a bunch of people and their mindsets and their muscle memory is is where the real work begins, but that's the real work of leadership, you know. It's like um yeah, that's that's how I go about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Yeah, I completely agree with you that there is something like tangible and controllable about like you and your numbers, whatever data points you're looking at, like you can at least understand it if it's in front of you and you can take some time with it. I do think managing people is much harder than anyone ever tells you before you do it. Like, I don't think that there's a way for you to ever know what managing people is like until you're actually doing it. And I think some people are better at it naturally than other people. Um but it's something that like I feel like when someone leaves a business, it's very rare that that person will talk about the business versus the person, like, oh, I I hated my manager there, or I loved my manager, I would work for her anywhere. And it it's so interesting because I'm like everyone has a little bit of a different philosophy of how to manage people. And it I don't know, I don't even know where I'm going with this conversation. I just think it's like so hard to manage people. I don't know if there's truly if there's anything else to really say. It just it's difficult.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, I mean, I think what I have learned, and I get I'm very passionate about it, is that um at the end of the day, we're all human beings, you know, human beings trying to have a happy life. And getting a bunch of human beings together to accomplish a goal together is hard because we're all so different and we all have different traumas and triggers and pain points and things that offend us and things that rub us the wrong way. There are so many different one of those things. So we have stuff that rubs us the wrong way, and then we're working with what, eight to ten people who also have that, and so at some point you're bound to rub up against one of those things, and they're gonna, and there's 10 people that have opportunity of rubbing up against you the wrong way as well. You know, it's very, very hard. And I think some people are better at it than others because honestly, they just have a personality that's more chill, you know, like they don't get offended very easily, um, which is not many entrepreneurs, right? Entrepreneurs are CEOs at heart. We have a very clear vision of exactly what we want, and we're, you know, all over the place and we're just hyper focused on it. Um, we are easily offended, right? We like it is it is really easy to get frustrated with people because they're not like us, you know, we're a different kind of person. There are some people who just don't have that personality, they just are chill, you know, and I see it very rarely, but I do see them. I'm just like dang, I wish I was like that. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

I have the same thought sometimes. I'm like, man, do I wish that I could just sit back and like just not care, especially when it comes to work. I like I love having a purpose at my job. I love doing things that cause purpose, or I just I get so excited about it. And then very much what you're saying too, because I like this is how I want it to go. This is the end goal. I need to get there, I need to work really hard to get there. It's just like wired within me. And whenever I see someone that's like super chill about a goal, I'm like, man, you must sleep well. Like you must just like it's that's a different kind of human completely that's like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah. Well, and it's it's I I mean, I've been in so much therapy in my life. Um, it's really like where they come from, you know. Like, I know people like that. They came from a certain kind of privilege that I did not have in my life, you know, and so they they can care less. But for people like me, it's like survival is the name of the game, and everything has a huge weight to it, and it feels like um failure is not an option because it feels like death, you know. Failure feels like a very scary place to be in. And so when it comes to employees during doing a certain thing a certain way, it just feels like everything is hanging on the balance of every decision that I have, you know. And so part of my work with owners and founders is having this conversation of like, hey, if you want to sleep better at night and if you want this to get easier, we have to actually address the scarcity that you're feeling and the fear that you're feeling so that you can calm that down and so you're not as reactive and as frustrated. That's the only way to do this. Because I understand I was the same way. Oh my gosh, I was the most frustrated person on the planet with my employees, you know, and it was just because every little thing mattered so deeply to me. And just because I I calmed my nervous system down essentially, or calmed that scarcity mindset, um, everything still mattered. Everything still mattered. I just wasn't as reactive to it. I was able to calm down and make a plan of action and a coaching plan and a vision, you know, a growth plan versus being like frustrated a lot.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah. Wow, that's like super impressive to get to that point too, to be able to do the work that you're like, oh, this is like this doesn't feel good, and it's not that it's not important. I just have to like look at it in a different way so I can actually be productive with it. Because I don't feel like I don't feel like a ton of people get there all the time where they're just like, this is just what it is, and like this is keeping that stress level. I am curious though, like with that background of just like everything matters and it's so important, and like from your background, do you think that's one of the reasons why doing the work you do now with consulting is maybe something that fills your cup? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like, do you feel like it's a bit of like a passion for you now to help people because you know what it feels like, and you're like, you don't have to feel that way about it though? Like we can make it work without that frustration.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Uh yeah. I mean, I have found, I feel like my life's purpose in this work a hundred percent. And like, um, I'll tear up because I was just talking about this actually, is that um like being a cafe owner, especially at a young age, I'm pretty sure it traumatized me. Like I I was too young and I didn't know what I was doing, and it caused me so much hardship for so many years. Just wow, blew me away with hardship. And it's like I don't want anyone to feel that way, you know, and like I didn't have anyone to really call. It was really hard to find the support I needed at because I didn't have any money and I just didn't know. Like it's really hard to find answers. And and I didn't even realize this when I became a consultant. I just thought I could get paid to give advice and get out of the coffee. shop and get out of like you know that that work and it's like the first time you help somebody from your past pain and experience and help them avoid that pain and that experience wow oh my gosh and you do that time and time again for multiple people not just the owners but the employees and and all of their people in management you're just like wow this is my life's work all of that pain that 10 years of hardship accounts for something something wonderful you know every cafe owner I've worked with they will employ what a hundred plus people over the course of their business and you get a piece in that you know and you're just like wow that's it's blowing me away I I had I could never imagine how much uh purpose I would have felt in this job as I do now.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

It's honestly incredible and also just like there's twofolds to it like one it's incredible that you're able to do the work because of where you were that like it's obviously needed right and it's also incredible that you're a resource that people are looking for and now they have someone that they're like oh I can call Erica like Erica could help me with this where I totally get what you're talking about. The coffee industry is so secretive about things like if you want to literally anything like throw anything out there it's so hard to like find reliable resources or how to fix something or not even knowing that you need to do something with certain machines. I work a lot I have a c I work in a company that has wholesale accounts and so we help like hotels and restaurants that have espresso machines or grinders no idea how to maintain them and there's nothing on the internet that would help them do it for how much they care about coffee. Like in the end it's a hotel or like a bar or whatever it might be. Like their passion is not coffee and so they need those quick resources. It's so hard if you don't create them yourself to give them to someone and we're talking like in-depth things about your personal business that like if you can't find how to clean a grinder you're not gonna find that anywhere like you're not gonna find that person. So it's really cool that you've created a space that business owners have someone now that they can go to and talk to and that you have done it before that it isn't some random guy that's like yeah I think I might know yeah I mean yes I mean you you hit it on the head and I think some of my biggest ambition and passion for what I do is is not being a consultant necessarily that's not um I do love it but that's not I'm only one person, you know, so it's like how do I take this work this help this resource and actually make it more accessible and more widely available and more um broken down in a way that anyone could understand.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

You know I think that's been one of my biggest um accomplishments as a consultant which I even know I could do but I call it the sesame streeting of information of like these are really big hard concepts especially if you're not familiar whatsoever. And so we got to break it down. We got to be like this is you know this is this and just not in a way that makes anyone feel stupid but makes them feel encouraged right and honestly maybe my biggest hot take I don't think the coffee industry is secretive. I think that genuinely people don't know what they're doing. And so how could you be loud about it if you don't know if you're wrong about it you know and sometimes those loud and wrong people do pop up and what happens to them? Everyone's just like trash you know because they're loud and wrong. So like even me like giving advice on the internet I I really don't like to do it. I don't like to have loud opinions about things. I don't like hot takes because it's very hard to actually apply that to everybody and actually possibly be wrong. You can possibly be wrong. There's so many different kinds of businesses so many different scenarios how can you give one blanket answer for you know so many things so I I even I saw a post recently of a well known coffee company posting we don't know what we're doing after all this time and part of me thought like okay that's kind of funny but also I'm just like I hope you do know that's a very popular business with a lot of employees and you're just proudly being like we don't know you're responsible for all these human beings and you don't know I don't I don't I think you should probably know like you're a business of 500 people you should have a lot of people to take care of and I think you also people are listening to you and watching you and taking you for an example. So I understand the humility aspect of it but I also think I think that what I want to see is an industry of brick and mortar owners who know what they're doing who can build more sustainable businesses so that we're not wasting so much. We waste so much resources in our in this sector of the industry I'm just talking about brick and mortar people because these are my people we waste so much time money resources every time a cafe closes that all that stuff goes in the dumpster like I've seen it that whole build out you just did that cost you $2000. The next person comes in and wipes out 80% of it because they don't like the countertop you picked out you know so you know I just it is hard to find the answer you know it is and yet cafe people are stubborn they're stubborn they don't want to listen they don't want to take advice you know how hard it is to convince someone to come to a finance class even if I know for sure they're struggling with their finances like yeah so yeah so is it secretive or they actually don't know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

I think that's a really good take I just think about like I always am reggae on coffee snobs from like the early 2000s that are just like we know everything about everything. And I wonder if that culture has just made us like embarrassed to actually ask for help. And so we just we cover things up instead of like doing it the right way because we're embarrassed or worried that someone's gonna come for us.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Um I don't know I'm just having that thought now but it it is like a hundred percent no one wants to admit they need help. I think it's the biggest barrier for people to reach out to me that like one they think they can't afford it and then they just are they they feel like there's something wrong with them for asking for help. You know and I and I understand why as a young cafe owner I remember going to coffee fest or SCA and hearing a class or seeing a teacher or and coming you know or whatever coming up to them and being like hey my name's Erica I have this coffee shop I'm really young it's struggling I feel like I don't have any money that and they would literally just be like just close your business it sounds like you don't know what you're doing and you should close your business. Wow and I'd just be like what and they'd be like yeah like it's gonna be too hard for you to actually ever figure it out and you should like make an exit plan. And there was just no empathy like no empathy no sense of connection none of that you know and that's how a lot of professional service people are lawyers accountants um finance people especially they're they they're great at numbers and bad at people they don't have empathy they don't have delivery they don't have curiosity they don't have a sense of like um you know struggling to success they're just like calculating a number and being like you should be done you know and so it's like I meet with people and they're embarrassed. They're embarrassed to tell me what's going on and they they're not really truthful the first three meetings you know like I always know that like I can tell we'll get to this in meeting four. Yeah yeah and and or you know they're blind they're blind to what's going on because it's this close to their face and they have to believe in the delusion of the dream right we all do because that's what's driving us to make it so I know that I don't judge anyone for any of this stuff but they are a hundred percent always cautious and embarrassed to really tell me what's going on because everyone feels bad about it. And and I get why it's because you're trying really hard um we're sensitive about you know we have our own egos wrapped up in the success or failure of our business you know and we're highly criticized people you know employees you know maybe rightly so they're they're hard on us you know they they are very critical um the public the customers are very critical you know we ourselves are very critical people that's why we're entrepreneurs we have a dream if we weren't critical we would go work for other people you know but we you know so it's it's it is embarrassing it is hard to ask for help.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Do you think your relationship with women owners or women that reach out to you is different than your relationship with men or does it feel similar whether you're working with women or men?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

It's definitely different. I would say most of my clients are women like I don't know why that happened but maybe that's part of the data is like most of the time it's women. Um yeah I think that um I do think there is a difference you know and I do think that some of them some similarities like there are some women that really do care about ego in the same way as a man but like my women clients are are vastly different. You know they a lot of them um I think women naturally have this community of understanding how to support one another and how to be there for one another you know and how to like feel like when my women clients get together with me they're so excited to like learn from me and have a relationship with me and Gab and really talk and work through things like that doesn't seem hard to teach you know and that's what I love about working with them. Um I think that a lot of them are really truly caring for employee relationships in this like empathetic way that's really exciting and I'm on that safe way wavelength and so it's really nice to kind of focus on that with them. And I also the with my women clients I know that we manifest our anxieties in very similar ways. So it's like you know a lot of them um are mothers and I'm a mother and so it's just um talking through them with their anxiety in a way that they would grasp because it's like woman to woman, you know? Yeah. So yeah it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

I think um more recently I've had a few interviews with people and we've been talking about how the coffee industry sometimes can make you feel like you have to choose like you have to choose like whether you're going to just like be all in it for a mother as a mother or choose your career or choose this over here. Do you think in your role in showing people a different path you can take in coffee that it also helps them have an example of like oh I can still be like I can be a good mom I can still go after this dream over here I can still do this like I don't have to just choose one path to be on uh yeah I don't know I I honestly you know I used to talk about my kids a lot and being a mother a lot and that's changed.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Um I don't really talk about it anymore. I think one because um you know to be straightforward and honest it's an interesting question for me because I was raised that I was gonna be a wife and a mom and I was going to be a stay at home mom and I was just that was going to be my thing was being a mom and then um I bought a coffee shop you know and my baby was born one year later literally born one year later. It was bad timing. Two babies one year yeah two babies one year and so my entire lens of motherhood ha started through being a struggling cafe owner and so I never had time home with my kids ever. I've never had time at home with them. I had them strapped to my back at work and I had babysitters like the most amount of childcare. I never thought I'd be a mom of childcare needs and yet that's what I had to do because of the path that I chose. Um and so you know for me it's like if I did want to be a stay at home mom and I did want to have the majority of the time with my kids no I wouldn't have been able to choose the same path and I don't know if I would have been able to work in coffee. You know, and yet the thing that I really like learned and what I hope I can show people is that I don't think that's actually what I wanted anyway. I don't think I ever wanted to be a stay at home mom. I don't think that idea or that picture of motherhood is ever what I actually wanted. I thought I think that's what was taught to me you know what I realized as a human being is that I love business. I love being a businesswoman. I find so much purpose in business you know I love it. And I also think that for me coming from poverty essentially I also do love money and I want to have money for my kids. I want to have a sustainable life for my family. And so it's like my path looks so much differently than I thought because this is what who I actually am you know so I don't spend the majority of time with my kids. I have one week on one week off because we have joint like I was am divorced and so I'm a 110% mom every other week and not a mom at all every other week it's the best life hack. But also not the life that I would have chosen not a life that other mothers have the ability to choose you know so I think um what I'm proud of is actually just showing that there can be a different way. My kids are so happy and stable and wonderful. I'm like oh my gosh they're great kids they're seven and 12 and I didn't need to be home every day to make that happen. Right? We have a really loving family we are great parents as a team and my kids are awesome and yes they need me I'm their mom but like it's not what I thought you know it it didn't take what I thought. So I was able to choose myself and choose my kids and it looks completely different than what I ever thought it could be.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

You know yeah I think that's so beautiful too for your kids to see you like just me seeing you talk about business the way that your face just changes the second that you can drop some education like it just lights up and your kids to see that in you and be like oh our mom is absolutely living her best life because like for me growing up both of my parents did not like their jobs and a lot of me growing up was like realizing like oh you gotta you're gonna work when you're older and you're probably not gonna like it but like you need to make money so just like stick stick with it. And now being in a place where I'm like I love what I do and I love the connections and similar to you I feel like I have found such a passion in like meeting women and talking about what they're passionate about and sharing that. It like fills me up every single day. I know when we get off this call I'm gonna like walk out there and be like I feel so good and so light because I got to hear your story and your experience. And I think that's something kind of what you're talking about at the beginning is like how can we show younger generations that maybe aren't getting this from school but are getting it from home that like you can have like an amazing career and you can be very happy in what you do and you can help people and maybe it does look different than what you thought it was going to but like you don't have to be miserable in order to be successful. Like you don't have to stick to this one thing you can find what brings you happiness and I think that's like really really cool.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah I mean it is cool and I I think what's hard about it is trying to even teach it to my own kids and even this young workforce right I I talk to so many employees. A lot of companies bring me in to talk to their employees which is so fun. I'm like the fun auntie you know like it's becoming yeah um and I think that in order to be able to find this purpose right what did I just say in order to find this place how many years of struggle did I need to lead me here. And so like if you truly want to be happy in your life you truly want to find your path that that makes you feel good you have to be willing to be uncomfortable and hit all the unhappy places so that you can redirect. And people hate change they're afraid of discomfort they're very avoidant of being uncomfortable employees as well and so they stay with it and stay with it until they can't bear it anymore and then maybe like you know switch but they're they're not engaging in the process the same way that I think it really takes you know yeah like it's not like an influencer where you just find it overnight one night and you blow up and you found your place you know it's like there's always something before that like someone might just see your success right here but like there was always something that helped you get to that point and usually it is some sort of hardship that brought you there.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Like I feel like knowledge so often comes from the uncomfy difficult moments like people that you really look to and meant like mentors you almost always hear about a backstory that's like this was very uncomfortable and now I'm stepping in a role to try to help you through what is probably going to be really uncomfortable for you. But kudos to you for wanting to be uncomfortable because otherwise you're just staying there. You're just staying in an uncomfortable gross spot and like no one wants that. I feel like that's something I see where like people like I might not like my job but like it's what I know so I'm gonna stay here.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I'm like man you could really love it if you did something that made a change to make you you know but yeah it's it's such an interesting I mean it's an interesting type of avoidance you know we all avoid probably what's best for us at times you know and I just think for me the biggest lesson I've learned is the character trait of you know curiosity you know and having fun and engaging even when it's painful like really engaging with it you know I when I was um when I left my shop and joined the workforce um I had two jobs and the first one I only lasted like six months it was really hard for me to be to have a boss um it was very hard it was very uncomfortable um sometimes I wonder like you know I actually didn't mean to leave it six months but I had been honest and just said you know I'm not feeling it like I'm feeling like this isn't the right fit and they were just like okay so you can be done like this week and I was like oh okay um you know which was a redirection which I'm happy about you know like it worked out then I get into my next job and it was so hard oh my gosh oh my gosh it was so hard and I was just determined I have to succeed I have a goal here I'm gonna keep engaging even though it's uncomfortable so that I can hit that goal mark you know that goalpost um and it took a year and a half you know and I was done and I felt really good about it. I'm like I feel great I'm good for le you know I've hit what I wanted to hit. But what I see oftentimes is people in the workplace just like you said staying even though it's uncomfortable and they don't like it. But there's no there's no goalposts they're just kind of buying their time and staying miserable you know and staying um or you get a job and you're just kind of there and it's uncomfortable uncomfortable and you switch and it's uncomfortable and uncomfortable and you switch and it's uncomfortable and you're not actually really engaging or trying to pick up or learn anything from any of the situation you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Speaking of goals what are some things that you have that's coming up for you or things that you're excited about or any like future goals that are maybe coming up in the next months or years or oh my gosh I have so many

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Goals. I'm just too ambitious. I have a lot of Capricorn in my chart. Um I'm like all Capricorn. Uh and I'm so passionate about the industry. And there's just things I see in the industry that I think are majorly missing and that we need help with. And I don't think anyone is coming to save us, you know, and not that I can save us, but I can provide things that I think are missing, you know. And so um, of course, consulting is always gonna be there and it's around. Um, but I'm only one person, you know. So this year I made my first hire, one of my dear friends, Eric Grimm, and of course my wife, Trisha Liu, I hired her to help join um so that I can kind of spread out the impact of what I can have as a consultant. But our main focus is being a resource, like an actual accessible, trustful resource for brick and mortar cafes. So um so we just launched um our agency brand. We have an agency now. It's um called the Cafe Operator. And it's really the mission, yes, includes consulting, but the mission is to be a resource for cafe owners in America, not just the owners, but all of the operators in between. You know, it's the director of stores, the head of retails, the you know, district managers, the actual store managers, all of us need a lot, a lot of support. And we want to be that support, you know. So we have so many ideas of what we can do for the industry at large to help be that support system, you know, and provide what everyone has been hoping for and looking for. So right now it's a heavy focus on education. Um, I'm currently on a huge year-long tour. I haven't said that it's a year-long, but it's a year-long tour where I'm going to a bunch of different cities across the US teaching um business classes, cafe-specific business classes. Um, we're gonna keep going on that. We have a lot more cities that we're heading to and planning on going to. We really also believe in events like the right kind of events, you know. Pre-COVID, um, the coffee industry was having so many interesting kinds of events, and I know that all went away and it has not kind of come back yet. I'm starting to see it come back a little bit more in various cities, but we really want to help make sure that we're providing, you know, gathering spaces for all of us that do this work. You know, I think that we're missing out on each other's wisdom and encouragement and presence because we're too busy to get together. And we need to be able to get together, you know, like humans have been doing that through all time. I was just even watching a video about um the concept of a salon um back in the day when people used to get together and talk about big ideas, you know, and just sit together and talk about big ideas with philosophy, business, economy, all these things. And we need to do that. We need to do it more often. Um, especially I'm talking specifically to those of us who want to make the world a better place because so many of us coffee people want to make the world a better place. You know, yeah, and we should be talking and planning and strategizing on how to do that. Um, so we have so many plans, like so, so many plans.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

And so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

So many ideas, thank you. Um, but what was so exciting this year um that I want to be transparent about is we I got my first investor. Oh yeah. Yeah, I put these ideas to paper. I got I got an advisor and a consultant, and I said, I have these ideas, they're big ideas, I want to fundraise, you know, and he helped me put it together into a whole business plan um into something that I could pitch. And so I did. I had someone approach me and kind of ask me what I was doing and what she knew I was a big ideas person, and she's like, I want to hear the big ideas, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

And so we got our first investor this year, and that's gonna help us launch a lot of things that we want to do. And I'm so I'm blown away. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

I okay, so you just you just told me like 10 things that I am like so over the moon for you about. Congratulations. This is massive. I'm so excited for you. Yeah, and like what's gonna come? Like, wow, that's a huge oh my gosh. Okay, well, now we have to figure out where like which my brain is overwhelmed with questions at this point. Because I'm just so excited. Like, one, how is the tour going? Just traveling around the US and seeing all these people. I'm assuming good response from people, just being able to have business courses. And I I guess now I could say that both ways because I know that people can be nervous to show up to something like that potentially and like be vulnerable about it, but also like what a great resource. Two, it's so needed. Everything that you just said is so needed for the business world, the industry world that we're in. And three, yes, we need to be meeting more. Like, all of us need to be meeting more because that's where great ideas come from conversations. Like, and four and five, like, wow, what a great example you are to people that like have these massive ideas, but maybe are afraid to again ask for help. How do I do this? And the outcome is so exciting of like, yeah, I did something that was like uncomfortable, didn't know how to do it, and now you have an investor, and we're hopefully gonna see all the beautiful ideas like actually roll out because there's funding that can help you do it. I mean, man, that's exciting! That is so cool. Congratulations, that's massive.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm I feel extremely humbled, you know. Like I feel humbled, and at the same time, I just I know that I've just had a lot of ideas. I'm an ideas girl, and I've just always been a leader. That's been my entire life, you know, of being the person to just do things, you know, and finances has has been the biggest setback in that, you know. And it's like, I want to do this idea. Yeah, it's gonna cost, you know, fifty thousand dollars. And you're just like, okay, yeah. I don't come from I don't have family money, I don't have people to call. I have nothing like that, you know. I'm I've not had anything like that. Um the most support I had as a cafe owner was my parents' credit cards, you know, and their time. They did help with their time, but it was their credit cards, which was a terrible idea to use them. Like I wish I hadn't opened my coffee shop that way. It was a terrible idea. So it's like that's how I was able to do it. It's there's a reason why it's not recommended, you know. Yeah. And so even now, like this is the first time I think maybe a year ago was the first time I could actually afford to pay for all of our bills and for our kids and like have money in a savings account for the first time in my career. I've been doing this 18 years, you know, and um, and so then when you say I have these ideas that cost $50,000, you're like, one day I could do that, I could probably save up and do that one day. And so um it feels really special um to have someone in my life that recognizes my work, you know, that sees me, that really sees me and um wants to support that, you know, especially as someone that doesn't have that support anywhere else, you know. So and I think it's from people who want to make the world a better place, like genuinely there those people exist. I work with all of these people I work with who want to make the world a better place. Um, and so yeah, I'm very excited. Other than that, um the tour has been like great, of course, great, great, and also so hard. Wow, like uh vulnerability-wise, like it is at a maximum 12 out of 10 because you're like, who am I to go to these cities where I don't know anything or not many people? Like, I know one person who lives here, and I'm gonna host an event and just hope people show up. Um so I can't say we have massive numbers, like I don't think it was ever about numbers for us, although, of course, you want you know 20 people to show up. We've had anywhere from three to 15 people show up to any given event. Um, but one of our things, and I teach this to business owners, is that you have to know how you're measuring success before you actually execute. And so for us for this tour, um, of course, uh my team was like, I don't think we should do this. What if no one shows up? We should do it when we have more marketing power, we should do it when you have this, blah, blah, blah. And we had to reset on how we're measuring success. Are we measuring success by how many people show up? Like, how are we actually gonna look back and say this was a good idea or not? And for me, um, I I measure success by saying one, every person counts. That that's been our motto this entire tour. Every person counts. If three people come and learn a little bit more about this business and how to make it more sustainable, that's three more people. And every person counts because you go to 10 cities, three people at each one is 30 people. That's 30 more people. And what kind of ripple effect do 30 people have? It's a lot, it's a lot, you know? Yeah, so it's been amazing when three people come, it's amazing when 12 people come. You know, and what I can say is the people who showed up said, Oh my god, I wish more people came. Like this was great. And next time we're gonna make everyone come. And you're like, that's right. That's right. So it's it's like I I think we were talking about this earlier. Um, I hate the game of sponsorships. It is so I'm so over it. Like, I really appreciate I've had three amazing sponsors, like La Marzoco is doing amazing things, um, Proper Syrups and Created Co. They have been awesome. Um, Fresh Cut magazine has also been amazing to me. I hate all the other sponsorship stuff. Like, I'm sure there's great companies doing great things, and I of course would love to work with other companies, but there's so many asks, and only so many companies can do it. And so they have to choose what is worth it and what's not worth it. And it has to be a good business choice for them. So when I'm saying I want to take a risk and have business classes and hope people show up, like, what are they are they really gonna sponsor that? No. So I knew that this was something I was gonna have to fund myself, you know. And um, and it that's what's been so great about having an investor as well, is that now it's like I'm not alone in doing this. I have someone who believes in me and believes in the work, and I know that this is going to the have the ripple effect that we want to see, you know, in the industry. So um it's done exactly what it's supposed to do. It's also fascinating to see all the different city cultures, you know. They're all a little bit different, and so we know, okay, this city, this is what they need. This city is where here, this city, okay, this city and that city are very similar in their needs. Wow, we could see what all of them need for sure. Yeah, you know. Um, so it's been great. It's been so good. And I think that's the other thing that was important about the tour. Is like if I'm saying our mission as a company is to support cafe owners everywhere, and we're not everywhere and we're not going everywhere, then how can I really say that? You know? And so it's just like really going and seeing what the energy is and what the vibes are, what the struggles are, who are the type of people that are showing up, and what type of people are not showing up. You know? Um, so it's been yeah, I've loved it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

It's really cool, honestly. Like you are getting such a view of the coffee world in the US that like not a lot of people could say that they've been in that situation. I feel like not a lot of people have tried to do something like what you're doing right now.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just making more friends and connections, hearing more stories as well. You know, I get I got the tea in every city I went to. Yeah. Um, but you know, and and maybe this is like too haughty of myself, but I I'll never forget um long time ago, uh Ashley Rodriguez, she works uh for Fresh Cup now, but she had done an interview with me, and she um she lovingly titled it Erica Escalante, the mother of baristas, you know, and this was like eight, ten years ago. Um and that stuck with me. Like it did. Like I do feel like the matriarch. I've always had this energy, you know. I am the person that hosts Thanksgiving dinner for all of our friends. Um, I am the mom, like I don't have a lot of mom. There's not a lot of moms in the industry, you know, but I do have uh this mothering energy, you know, and I do really genuinely care about every person who works in this industry. Um and so just being out there with people and sitting with them and talking with them and listening to them, sharing with them, it just it really truly seems to be just the biggest privilege I've had, you know, to do. And it has it has cost me much. Like I am, you know, the investment money wasn't did not come in for this. Like I'm I paid for it myself, you know, and I just said I can't do it the sponsor thing. Like, I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it because it's important work, you know, and it was very costly.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Expensive research, yeah. Expensive research, but yeah, the thing that I'll say about what you just said though is that there is no doubt in my mind how genuine you are about that statement. Because when you talk, like yes, you love business, but you love people. Like what you're really talking about is people and helping people, and that's like such a through line in everything that you talk about. It's like I want to help people, I want to show them, I want to educate. But it's not just like to do it, it's not like that finance bro that we might have been talking about earlier. It really is, it comes from such like a genuinely warm place that you care about people, and I think that's why it's very easy to step into your investor's shoes and be like, well, of course, you're gonna be successful because the industry is about people.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Thank you. Yeah, I don't know why I am this way. My therapist had that. She's like, you she's she said, out of everyone I've ever met, you believe in your dreams the most.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

I was like, wow, thanks, Disney Channel.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Like I was a Disney kid and it shows. Me too, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Yeah, I was a wannabe Disney kid. We didn't even have the Disney Channel growing up, but I still took it. Yeah, I believe in myself.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

I think your path in coffee is so interesting. Like, what advice would you give, or what thoughts do you have on just different careers in coffee?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

Yeah. I mean, I know the one that I focus on, like my lane, I guess, is in operations. And I don't think I really understood this for a long time about just how companies work. Um, but there's typically, you know, a few different ways you can go, right? The the owner path is like the CEO. You have a lot of vision, you have a lot of ideas, you have a lot of like, this is what I want, you know. That's a great CEO path. You need to be kind of the leader of the ship. Um, the other path is marketing, right? So if you love trying to convince people to buy stuff and engage with a brand and all of that, that's the marketing direction or sales direction. That's you know, the other path which mo people try to go in. There's the actual like um the actual craft pathway, right? Where you're like, I want to be the barista and then the trainer and the roaster and the coffee nerd and the cue grader, and like that's another path. I think that's probably the lowest paying path out of all of them. Maybe the CEO. That's hard to make, you know, you gotta be good at it to make money. But um, this other path, I think people ignore or don't realize you can go this way. It's probably the hardest, one of the hardest pathways to choose. It's in operations. And operations people are able to look around and see how every system should run and how to clean up messes and keep them clean for a long time. And so in the cafe, that looks like a barista to shift lead to assistant store manager, assistant store lead to that store lead or store manager mark. You know, past that you can get into being a district manager or dual manager where you're managing multiple stores at the same time. And past that, you can become head of retail, you know, or director of stores, right? That's when you actually start making over six figures or around six figures, you know. Past that point, there's so much. You can become a COO, right? That person makes a lot, a lot of money. You gotta work for a big company, but that's like where that's kind of that pathway. And I love it. Oh my gosh. Like I love this whole pathway. Now, um, I'm good at operations, but I'm also a CEO type, you know, so I have a little bit of both of that. But um current I do love making other idea people's ideas happen. Um, it is a hard pathway, but like we need more people desperately to do this and to do it well. The hardest part about it is all of the people management. You're like heavy, heavy. You're the you're the heaviest load when it comes to people management. But if you can learn how to do it well, you could get to that six figure point within like what five to eight years, you could be making six figures. And most of these workers start when they're 18 to 20 years old. So by 30, essentially you could be making six figures or more, which is actually good money. But you have to develop the skill sets, and that's where I think people give up or they get burnt out, or maybe they just don't have the personality for it. So to me, um, in this pathway as well, there's also the finance department. You know, there's a another branch over here in finances, and so if you're actually really smart, smart with numbers, smart with math, um, probably don't have a great personality or like a super, not that you don't have a great personality, but that great, like you know, extroverted personality, you can get into the financial side, which is awesome because we need those people. Like if you work in cafes and you love it, except all the people stuff really burn you out, but you're smart with numbers, get into finance. You can become a bookkeeper. A bookkeeper makes anywhere from $30 to $100 an hour if you're good at it. And great bookkeeping is all about efficiency, which baristas are great at. Like bar flow, there's a bar flow applied to the bookkeeping, and we need those people who underact who actually understand what's going on in the coffee shop and what the financers are trying to tell you. So, through that, then you know, a lot of this pathway you have to go to school. You have to get the certifications, you have to go to school, you have to do all that kind of stuff. Um, but in there too, in operations and finance, there's HR. If you really, really care about people, you don't want to be in the cafe all the time, but you really care about people and you really want to understand labor law, HR is a great way to go. It is a lot of administrative duties, it's a lot of software management, it's a lot of beep booping on the computer, and it is a lot of you know, people management. That's also a great career path. It is gonna take you, you need to the $2,500 to get the certification, and you need practice and people management having hard conversations. HR is the person that brings you in and tells you that you don't smell good, so you got to be ready for that, right? Yeah, um, but like those are the career pathways that I'm trying to encourage more people to go into because we need them desperately. CEOs are running everything right now in the problem. We see the problems because the CEOs are running amok. And in any other industry, they're saying you can't have a great CEO without the CEO, and the CEOs are missing.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

So many. I uh Rochelle from Olympia Coffee told me the other day that um she definitely works in operations, so that whole branch that you were just talking about. And she told me that someone at one point at some sort of conference said to her, Oh, you work in operations, so you're not like really a coffee person. And I think like that's exactly the problem with the industry is that everyone's like, Okay, are you a brew star? Are you a roaster? Do you own the cafe? Do you own the roasting company? You green buyer, like all these like very hands-on coffee rolls. And it's like every single one of these is a business. And for a business to be healthy, you do need a lot of those other structural pieces. And you can still be a coffee person and be the finance person or be the HR. Like you can love the culture of a company, you can love the mission of a company and work in those operations. And we should be talking about them more because it's exactly like what you're talking about. Like no one knows how to do this stuff because we weren't meant to. We're the CEOs that are trying to be the finance person or trying to be the finance person plus the HR person or whatever it might be. Like you can't do it all, and you definitely can't do it all well.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Yeah. And I mean, I talk about this like all the time, but like I'm trying to make operations sexy again. Or maybe it was never sexy to begin with. But let me tell you, it is the sexiest job out of the all of it, right? Yeah. Because I'm sorry. You can have all the ideas about coffee you want and all the science and the nerdum and the chemistry and all of that. But I'm sorry, we're the ones actually making sure it gets sold. We're making sure that the baristas are able to make it well and sell it well. You know, like there's a lot over here. Like I know I directly impact farmers because of the way that I'm leading cafes to do their operations and to function. You know, part of operations is saying, okay, roaster, tell me about this coffee so that I can translate it in a way a barista can systematically get excited about it and sell more of it. I'm the person that's coordinating that, right? That is operations and making sure that the people working understand what's going on, you know, from the product side all the way down and what how to handle it and how to talk about it, right? That's an operational piece. It's so exciting. It's so exciting when you create systems that allow employees to do their job better, you know, and that affects everyone in the supply chain. So I also like it's it's the way you can make six figures. I'm like, I understand. I think people should be more motivated by money. Like in the con like, I think we need to be a little bit more motivated. I don't know if it's that we don't have any hope or that we just don't even think it's possible, or I don't know. I just I am telling you, like this last year, I could buy a pair of pants if I wanted to without thinking about it. I'm like, dang, why didn't anyone tell me how good it was?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:12

Why wasn't anyone talking to me about this?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Yeah, why didn't anyone tell me?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

This is great. Yeah, I think that there's like this like cultural aspect of like either you can't make it, so like don't even worry about what that would feel like, like you're just hearing coffee, like you're not gonna get it or whatever. But I also think that there's this wild thing that we need to talk about where you almost like feel bad wanting that, like, or like feel bad, like being like, ah, I make 40,000 right now. But I want the six figures, I want that. Like, it's almost like this idea that, like, oh, am I being greedy? Like, I should just be happy with what I have. And it's like, but you don't have to, and also like back to your investor. Money makes things happen, and it's there's so many passionate people that are stuck at this level of money where you're like, oh, well, I can't do that. So that idea is not happening or that's not coming to life. And it's like, it's okay for you to ask for more money. It's okay for you to be paid, it's okay for you to want that security in your life, but there is some problem in our industry where it's just like I don't know. It's like we're not translating that like you can make that kind of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Um I mean, I think that one the evil of capitalism is very apparent to all of us, right? When you're a barista and you leave your eight-hour shift sticky and tired, you really feel the weight of capitalism on you. And you're like, how much did I make today? That's all.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

Yeah, very physically you feel it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Physically, yeah. Um, so like we feel that, and and we also see people around us struggling, and it feels bad. It feels bad to make money. Um, at the same time, the thing is, is that in order to make more money, you have to be able to handle more. And that is sounds exhausting and or terrifying. But the reality is, is that you grow as a person, you can grow your capacity to handle more. And it doesn't burn you out and it doesn't, you know what I mean? Initially it's hard to grow. To grow feels hard. Oh my gosh, the growing pains is there, but once you're there, like you absolutely can handle more. You can handle so much more than you think. You have so much, you have such a big capacity for life that you don't even realize because you're afraid to grow and get there. So it's like I see people who get into a manager position and they quit after a few months because I just can't handle this. And maybe that's true, but like you could grow to be able to handle it. You can like this the amount of things right now, right now, currently I'm working with 10 different companies all at the same time, helping manage all of their stuff, and I'm fine, you know, like I I could do it, I'm doing it, and I I'm a little, I feel a little behind, I feel a little stressed sometimes, but it's it's through that growth, right? And so if you want to make six figures, but you have a forty thousand dollar nervous system and forty thousand dollar capacity, you can grow your capacity, and in that grow your responsibility and grow in ease of how to do the job, you know. And I think we're just afraid because it is uncomfortable to grow, but it feels really good when you get there, and we need it. We actually need it in the industry. We need these people to get there, you know. It's to make the industry more sustainable and happier in all the things you're talking about. You know who has huge capacity, big nervous system is the mediocre dudes that don't give a shit because they are not carrying everything. Yeah, so yeah, they're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

Like they're very happy, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

Yeah, they're totally happy and fine because they don't care about anyone else, you know. But we need people who care to grow, and it also comes with a financial gain that's important because you're handling so much, you can't worry about whether or not you can buy a pair of pants, you know. You're taking care of a lot of people. You need to make sure you can afford to go on vacation and take time off and have health insurance, right? So that you can grow and lead these people. So it's it's uh it's hard to get there, but it's just a few years of struggle and and you can get there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:31

Yeah. Um, I think this is a good opportunity too to ask, like, for that person that loves industry and they want to grow, they want to be that person. And maybe we've touched on this a little bit, but like, what advice do you give to that person right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:51

I think that at every point of frustration or discomfort, like anytime something doesn't feel good, it's an opportunity to grow. And like if you just run away or just quit or just go somewhere else, I promise it will follow you. It will follow you. It's not that boss, it's not that owner, it's not that coworker, it's not that environment, it's actually you. And and if you you know, I never I never shame anyone for doing whatever they do, right? We all have to make choices and um and all of that. But I just think I see a lot of people in the industry who actually butt up against the same problem anywhere they go, and not realizing that it's actually themselves that has an opportunity to keep going, you know? And so there's something really good. Like if you're really wanting to grow your career in coffee and you really want to be successful, stay where you are for at least a year. Give your brain time and look at it with curiosity of how can I be happier here? How can I make it better here? How can I make an impact here? What is something I can learn right here that would help me for the rest of my life? And um and when you do that, that's when you shoot up just so so fast. If you can't afford a therapist, get one. But also, you know, we can't oftentimes. So um I just think like grow wherever you're planted, but just grow. It feels really good.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

Yeah, I think that's very, very good advice. Um I really this last hour and a half that we've spent together, I just appreciate the heck out of you so much. I feel so honored to be able to spend this time with you and just to like share it and thank you. I just truly thank you from the bottom of my heart. I just I feel lucky.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

Yay, thank you so much. That's so sweet. Thanks for asking me.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:55

Thank you again to Erica for spending some time with us today. And again, if you aren't already following Erica and the Cafe Operator, consider this your reminder. Uh, she posts so much good information on there, a little helpful hints and reminders about business. So that is a huge resource for you, right at your fingertips. Um, and as always, thank you for listening. Thank you for being here with me. I feel so honored that we get this time together. I hope you have a wonderful week, and I'll catch you back here soon. Bye.