SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Sidecar. I'm Kate, your host and Sidecar Sidekick. This week I'm talking with Carrie Roberts, and I'm just gonna tell you right now, I had a hell of a time editing this episode because I genuinely did not want to cut anything. So it's a little bit longer, but you should know that this is one of those conversations that just goes. We talk about Carrie's path through coffee, leadership, the weird winding ways that we build careers in this industry, and a whole lot more that I'm just not gonna spoil for you. So it's thoughtful, it's funny. We take a lot of side roads, which obviously I loved, and it just felt like one of those really good conversations that you don't want to end. So I'm gonna stop talking now and let's get right into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

My name's Carrie Roberts. Uh I am a Gemini for those that track that. Yeah, I am just like a huge coffee lover, someone who is really curious. Um, I've been in the coffee industry for not that long, say like maybe six years. And yeah, I think I just really love um if I'm not having coffee and doing all things coffee related. I uh am outside with my dogs, hang out with my wife in Vancouver. Um yeah, I feel like those are the big, big things. Put she, her, they, them, I take them all. So I always think maybe that's a good thing to also note, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You haven't been coffee for that long, but you have started nonconformity very recently, would you say? Or has it felt like longer than very recently?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Next month is uh a year, so September 15th will mark our one year in business. Uh uh non-conf has been in the works, I want to say, for the last three years when we actually started thinking about what it would look like to kind of dip our toes in. Um I wanted to run my own business. My wife comes from parents who have been entrepreneurs, so it's just like I think we always knew what we wanted to do was have a piece of something. Um, but a couple years ago we decided coffee might actually be the the easiest way or like the biggest passion that helps us actually like jump the hurdle.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

That's how it gets us all. We're all like, we love coffee, let's go in, and then it's like welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah. I love coffee because it feels like there's no glass ceiling, like you never learn enough. It's like one of those careers and industries that it's just like the more you learn, almost like quicksand, like the more you kind of like get to know, all of a sudden you're just like fully like involved with everything that you can possibly know.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

I always talk about that. I'm like, it's my favorite part of the coffee industry is that you think that you're reaching some expert level, and then someone will say like one thing to you, and all of a sudden you come like crashing down, you're like, I know nothing, and just start it all over again. Um, well, congratulations. One year is a big deal. What has the first year felt like?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

A blur, if I can say anything. Like it's kind of crazy to sit back and then you start counting the months, and you're like, oh my gosh, like, you know, the first two, three months you're thinking, like, can I actually do this? And those ideas come. And a year later it's like I I'm able to trust and move with less thoughts. But I think through everything, it's just like a lot of anxiety, and then telling yourself, like, one of these days I'll miss doing this crazy task, or like one of these days I'm gonna miss doing deliveries or this won't be an issue for me. But um, yeah, it's been so crazy, but so like full of love. Like, I don't ever go back to being an employee, or like I think like a you know, working a nine to five for somebody. It's really great to just kind of like work almost 24-7 for myself and like feeling that it's like worth it and we're making a difference, which feels so cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So, obviously, lots of struggles and lots of figuring things out in the first year. But what do you think has been the most rewarding? Is it simply just working for yourself and having this passion that you can feel it, or is it something different?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Hmm, that one's hard because I feel like there's so many aspects that made it worth it, but the biggest one is not even like coming from myself. It just feels like you know, we have a bunch of people who have really taken um a loving to us, and like community building feels so feels kind of like a marketing term, and you don't really know how to put yourself out there, and especially when you're reliant of like being online. But I feel like we've been received so well so early, and I think that was my biggest fear in anyone, I guess, in starting a business, you're like, Well, people continue to show up, and we've been very fortunate with our like local community and like the folks that are you know not just in our you know tiny little Vancouver bubble, it's like people keep coming back, and every day I'm like, wow, like this is amazing! Like, this is your order, or if I'm getting coffee with someone and the Bruce is like, Oh my gosh, are you non-conformity? And I'm like, ugh, like this is crazy. I've been spotted. Like, how do you know who I am? Um, so all those little moments have just been like so exciting because you know, I love what I'm doing, and I can stay in my own little bubble and you know, working from home by myself. I am getting like my cup filled by doing all this work, but you know, when imp reaching out to us saying, like, you know, you're doing a great thing, or people want to just like talk more, it just feels like so beautiful, and it's just like not something I ever would have imagined happening in the way it did.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So tell me about kind of the base idea behind non-conformity. Like, what did you want people to feel when they connected with the brand or when they saw the brand? What was the goal?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

I think I make every decision when it comes to nonconformity based on I want people to feel like they're coming into my house and we're sharing coffee, not just like at a cafe, but very much like you can have anything I can give you, and I really want that to feel like I'm hosting anyone, no matter you know, if they know a lot about coffee or they just want to connect because like the world is can feel very isolating, and we even got into coffee in a time that feels very volatile. You know, we started when the market really kind of uh got crazy, and then um tariffs and all of these things. Like, we if you think back to a year and like what the market looked like for buying, and um, we were like, oh wow, like this is just what we're gonna take on the chin and kind of uh adjust as we go, knowing that nothing we will do is perfect. Um, but non-conformity actually came from my wife, which is so fun because I've been wanting to start coffee on like a roastery, or it was a cafe originally that I've kind of just now fully focused into a roastery, but I have been in coffee and a lot of people ask questions from uh like the customer standpoint in cafes of like, well, what is this, like what's a geisha versus you know, a pink bond, and what is wash versus natural, and there's all these questions, and they almost feel like scared to to ask. And I love getting to learn and share back. If I don't know the answer to your question, let me figure it out. And by the time you come back, like I wanna I wanna have an answer. So I just found like you know, encouraging people to ask more questions, and the coffee industry kind of like a lot of specialty industries, like wine and even you know, some food, people feel like they have to know enough or act a certain way, where I'm like, What happened if you just showed up and felt like you could show up intentionally and wasn't met with anything other than like grace and understanding? Because we all start somewhere. So it's kind of where we started of like if we're doing something new, why we know that we're not gonna show up perfectly. So, how can we also like encourage other people to show up imperfectly? You know, we're hearing at the end of the day, and that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, I really love that because it even I think about when I go to a restaurant where like maybe I don't know the cuisine very well, and like I don't know how to say the words, or if I'm gonna like something, the way that your server treats you is automatically gonna make you feel different about that dinner. Like if they were like snobby towards you, it's like, oh, I feel very put off, I'm not supposed to be here versus like, hey, it's cool, I got you, let me explain it. Like, oh, it's very welcoming, and maybe I do belong here, maybe I can try these things. Um I I completely agree with you. I feel like faculty coffee. I mean, I feel like it's making changes where there's more companies that are trying to be more welcoming that are trying to be like that friend that also loves coffee versus like, I don't know, maybe like 2010 when everyone was so happy about it. But um, I just feel like it's so isolated where we're trying to isolate people from something that we love. It's a bar take. Um so I can understand why people would be so excited to have you and especially the kinds of coffee that you're bringing into the forefront. Like there's some really cool coffees. Is there one that you currently have on that you're excited about?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Um, I think my it's really hard. Actually, we just finished selling one of my favorites, which was a um Columbia Wasp geisha that we got through Samia, like a Montreal importer. And the farmer's name was Marlene. And if you go on our like uh Instagram, I I feel like I've posted so much about her. She was our our second coffee out in the world was this beautiful geisha, and we get to talk to uh Marleni on Instagram, which has been so beautiful of getting to connect that story of not just like trusting the importerless who is you know doing all the work and responsible for these scenes. But that coffee was really beautiful, and I'm excited to to partner with her again. Um, hopefully a little bit later in the year we'll bring in another geisha from her because she's just done such beautiful work. But um right now we have which I'm I'm sure we'll get into the our factory rejects coffee, but that one is a brew, a natural brew that we got from Common, which is one of our friends who's an importer here in Vancouver, and it's just been such a tasty coffee. Every coffee I've roasted, I'm always trying to switch up the origin, and so I get to learn and just kind of like throw things at the wall. I've got no experience with roasting, so it's like every time I get to get a new hands-on. Um, it's just so to get to really understand what the difference of these profiles mean and why does elevation matter, and you know, why does the process matter? It's like all these things I just thought were they were important, but now I actually realize like the impact they make from the roaster side.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So yeah. How fun has that been, like learning how to roast and trying all these different origins and seeing the difference?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

It's um it's been really crazy. It's uh we started with a a one kilogram um bullet roaster in our garage. It was so funny. A couple years ago, I worked for a cafe with their own beans, and when I quit, like the next day I bought this roaster off Facebook Marketplace, some guy was selling, and we put it in the garage, and I got you know a small bag of green beans from eight ounce, um, which is in uh Calgary for like home uh home coffee people, and it was just kind of funny knowing nothing. Like I can taste coffee, and I've trained staff on how to dial in coffee and weave coffee, but when you're sitting with green with like no recipe, and you're just trying to understand like what the proper charge temp is gonna be and what that even means. And we started our first beans was a Tanzania, and it's very similar to Kenyan coffee I learned. Uh, and I don't love Kenyan coffee. I've got that like veggie tomato kind of taste when I taste Kenyan, but it was really funny to just like roast through something. And I remember I went to sell my first batch of that, and one of my friends who roast was like, Carrie, this isn't even like past first crack, like those beans aren't even fully roasted, and I'm like, Okay, back to the drawing board. It's like the lightest coffee ever.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

We're really trying something new here.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Absolutely, yeah. It's like how underdeveloped can I make it and still like taste good, but I had no idea really what first crack meant. And uh now I've got kind of an idea. I even feel that like because I don't come from any real training when it comes to roasting, I say I'm a vibe, vibe-based roaster, so like the beans kind of tell me when they're done, which is kind of funny, but it does seem to work like a tin and like a a tin a couple weeks later, they might be a bit different, but I try to kind of nail it um as closely as I can. But it's just so funny, like getting to continuously experiment and almost feel lucky.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

I do think like whether roasters want to admit it or not, we all where we have started is in a similar place. Like maybe you had someone that was like, here's the recipe to go off of and you got some like production roasting practice. But the first time that you get an organ that you've never roasted before and you don't have a recipe right in front of you, it is kind of like going off vibes. Like, granted how long you've production roasted, like maybe you have better guesses. But I mean, there's I remember when I like first got into roasting, I don't remember who told me this, but like when coffee roasters really started to get into faculty, none of them wanted to like share recipes. And it wasn't because they were like worried about competition, it's more because most of them were like, I don't think I'm doing this right. Like I'm just throwing things at it. And now that more of us talk to each other, I think that there's more opportunities for education. But like that's exactly how I felt on my first sample roasting gig.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, well, especially like when you start to learn even about how coffee ages, and depending on how long it's been, you know, in the bag, and depending on like the temperatures of the roastery, it's been really funny to be like, wow, there's so many like inputs to this. And then we've been crazy enough in the last year to like we started on our one kilogram bullet and we outgrew that like the first month of like actually doing sales. So then we went to our um, we're really lucky in Vancouver to have like a co-op rental space. So then we had to learn on the D-Drick, and that was really beautiful. And then six months into that, uh 12 uh kilogram machine. We had another friend with a lorry reach out saying, We want to open our roastery to rentals and co-ops. Can you help us build out this program? And I went, Oh, absolutely. So it's like I've been on three different roasters in the last year and still trying to like pivot. And we we were some Celsius on one and now we've moved to Fahrenheit, so it's just like nothing really feels real. You just have to like learn how to pivot. So I feel like I'm I'm a jack of braids so early, which has been like really fun. It's like always saying, Why not? I'll give it a go and see where we can go.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

But it's cool that you've roasted on a Loring. I haven't roasted on a Loring yet.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

It's uh so different. I feel like I do love the tactile in this um Abba Dreck. It's such a beautiful machine. Um the Loring is definitely saving my my back because I don't have to lift anything overhead. Um, but it's all self-uh contained, so they'll just be like, This is first crack, and I'm like, What do you mean this is first crack? I can't hear it. They're like, Yeah, I kind of have to like trust the numbers. And you're like, okay, I don't know how to feel about this. But it's been cool and getting to like continue the conversation with our like wholesalers and even like you know, friends buying just like odd tins at a time, like getting to hear their feedback and see if they notice a difference or like how they how they feel. And like none of this information when it comes to switching roasters is really online. Like when you Google like how to convert your recipes and stuff, like not a lot out there, so you're just like, okay, well, I'll continue to go on blind. And I do have the support of the people like at the co-op, which is also really beautiful. Of if I've got any questions, there's always someone working to kind of like problem solve with.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

I've never been in a co-op situation. What's the vibe?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Um, it there are pros and cons, obviously, to sharing toys with no matter what industry you're kind of in, um, especially when you're sharing with like a bunch of men. So I feel like there's not a lot of um ABAB humans. Um even though we are kind of building and growing in in numbers, so exciting. It's just so funny getting to, you know, come into a roast, and sometimes it's like not as tidy as you might want it to be. Or one of the spaces, the customer bathroom, is um through the roastery. It's like a cafe in the front, the roastery, and then the bathrooms are in the back. So you just have all these people like observing and like walking through and like staring at you, which kind of can feel overwhelming of like, you know, I'm just a girl, I don't really know what I'm doing. And then you have people just like it's almost like you know, like dads at the airport, they're like watching being like, huh, what are you doing over there? Like, what's that sound? Um, but I just think like it's been so beneficial to who we are and start because when you get to roast um in a co-op, you don't have any of the overhead costs, which is really exciting, and you don't have to deal with maintenance. So it feels like there's so much that goes into building a roastery. I am so thankful that we just kind of got to step in and we got trained by some huge Titans in our local community, and then you get connected to everyone starting out at different um spaces. So we've got people in the co-op that roast and white label for folks. There's people who just want to learn how to roast because there's like a bullet and a smaller scale roaster as well, so it's like really cool to just have hobbyists or like huge um cafe owners roasting their beans once a week. So it's just been so fun to kind of like work on that process. Um, and then you get to package and kind of have all the things you could need, even though I don't get to package the same way because we have these tins instead of bags that are easier to but yeah, it's just cool to celebrate the moments with people and you know, roastery day-to-days can feel really isolating if you work by yourself, you know. So it's nice that we all just have a reason to talk to people and ask questions and celebrate the little milestones together, which feels really important, which I miss from being in the cafe life, is like getting to actually be a part of everyone's like big moments of birthdays or anniversaries or so I have no desire to get out of a co-op. If I can stay in these spaces forever, I will happily stay there.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I do think it is something that's so different when you switch from being customer-facing all the time to not. It's like it's a very different world in coffee from seeing like hundreds of people a day potentially to like you're with. I mean, my roasting company has eight people at the most working there. Like right now we have six, or like you better like those six people because that's really the only people you're seeing. Um it's it's pros and cons for it. It's like really lovely to be able to be connected so much to the coffee as you're roasting it, but then at the same time, you might miss those celebrations like you're talking about. That's a happy medium in between of still being able to have relationships with people, even though it is a small company that you're roasting for right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, it definitely feels very, very lucky and it's also allowed to focus on the stress of creating, you know, uh new tins or different, you know, merchandise and doing sales and stuff, like not having to build the roastery out right away and just getting to kind of jump into a space that's already pre-existing, like saves so much energy and time that we get to just if it somewhere else, which is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, I feel like that would be really overwhelming too. Like if you're learning how to roast, how to run this business, and they're like, now we need to build out a roastery. Um that would be wild. Also, like it is nice that you get to see this space, but if you eventually did want to move out of it into a different, like what worked well, what didn't work well, at this point you have three different roasting um machines that you've been on, like which one did I like the most? Um all of that experience is definitely worthwhile too for down the road if you ever need it. Um, can we talk about your branding? Can we talk about your tins? Absolutely. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. Um tell me about the inspiration for your brand.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, the branding itself um is really tied to like American traditional tattoo. So if you look at it, it's bold lines, it's very a small color palette. Uh we found that it's pretty accessible, the red, yellow, and blue with the bold lines. Um, I also picked something that is timeless because I did all the branding myself. So I don't want to have to redesign it. Um, I wanted something that just kind of like felt like it would be timeless. Uh the Cupie doll though, which is our logo, came from my wife, which is so funny. It's like I feel like I wanted to be so hands-on with this project and have everything kind of feel like this was my baby for lack of a better term. But you know, Brandy was so good at actually, I begrudgingly took the name and the logo from them. Cause I was like, oh, I shouldn't just like push on this. We both identify as like queer and non binary, and there's just something about this Cupie doll that's like it's cute, but you quite don't know like what's going on with it. Uh you it is cute, but I just think it's kind of weird, and that's very much like our vibe, a vibe of like, you know, I don't want you to know who I am right from the get-go, but I want it to be a conversation piece. Uh even with our the logo, it's smiling, but the eyebrows are pretty like cheeky and mischievous. So it's like we wanted it to feel playful regardless. We have the very bold, um, boldly designed the fuel style tins just feel like a little bit of a nod to old school cool coffee tins. Um, but also we saw another roaster in they're in the UK. I think it's called Rise and Grind or something along those lines, but they do fuel tins, and I saw that you know a couple years ago, and I was being so excited because I was like, this is the first time I'd seen coffee not in bags. So when it came for us to design the bag, I wanted something that stood out um on a wall, was easy to pack. So the tins are really easy to ship, um, they're easy to handle, they're very tactile. I wanted something that made you get excited to grab it rather than like sometimes a clean white bag. Um, you just don't feel like it's like as approachable. But I'm like, you can shake these, you know, and you can kind of so yeah, it's just been it's been so fun. A lot of people talk about our branding, and I just remember hating doing the design. Because I got a small blip of graphic design. Uh, I've got a business degree in marketing. So my sweet wife was like, you can do it all. Like, we don't need to pay anyone. So it took so long to like design it and get it off the ground. But now it's cool to see like, wow, I have done everything, which feels really, really exciting.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And it's great work, like everything that you were describing that you wanted it to feel like, or you wanted someone to take that experience by like you're like nailing all of my thoughts on it. Like it's so fun, it's so playful, it's bold, it's so like approachable. And it is like a little bit cheeky and my studious, but at the same time, like it's really fun. Like the first thing I want to do is like pick it up and take it, like just pick it up. Yeah, and like again, plays it and playfulness. I think it's fun, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

I really thank you.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

And it is super timeless. Like, I feel like your mascot could just live on for decades, and it's just like that is it's also like iconic. Like, I can't think of another brand that has a similar vibe to it in that way.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Thank you. It's been uh it's been fun. I think like even with our names, we've been very risky, and it's funny because Brandy, my wife, um, doesn't come from the coffee industry, they're a landscaper by trade, and they love, you know, McDonald's coffee to me is like they're very not picky, which is so funny to pair us together. Um, because I feel like I, as much as I do drink coffee that's not specialty, like or um like third wave coffee, I always like to find niche coffee shops and experience those ways, but in a finch I will when I'm dropping them off at work or something, get it to me, and I call it uh market research when I'm having like fast food training coffee. But um, it's funny because they've been really good at just saying, like, does that matter? Like just communicating um niche like vocabulary or getting caught up in just like the specifics, like, does that matter when it comes to you know enjoying a cup of coffee? So I've been really thankful to have someone that's not in the industry be my soundboard. So it's like I think sometimes names are too risky, or like can we call or like use queer um like lingo as names because it's like we're selling to the mass public, and it's like, well, if we just like cared about what everyone thought, we wouldn't be who we are, and we already exist in a way personally in our lives that feels to go against the grain of kind of being cogs in the wheel in like our capitalistic society. So it's like, why would we not play with things? And it's great having conversations, like having our friends in cafes be like, Yeah, it's so funny. Well, people grab the D the decaf and it says pillow princess, and they're like, What does that mean? Like, so it's just like fun to have people that align with those like playfulness and know like it's not serious, um, and it doesn't have to be, even though the coffee is still good inside.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah, I love that Brandy is that person for you too. That I guess I think when you get deeper and deeper into coffee, you're like, oh no, you can't say that, you can't do that. That's not right. And I I I think it's one of the questions I think, but it's on your website, like that specialty coffee has lost a lot. And that is kind of what that is. It's like we don't all have to be the same. And if we all are the same, then how are we really growing this industry? And I think it's cool that you have someone that's next to you, like, but is this being true to you? Is this being true to who nonconformity is versus what specialty coffee wants you to be?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah, and like we um it's been very important because Bernie's been with me as I've like, you know, gotten more niche and um falling kind of more into the industry. And I've worked with so many cafes that are like multi-roasters. So I got to kind of see a lot of different um brands and I got to communicate with a lot of different roasters before we jumped in to just know like what matters to them and their story and who knows about the farmers and who's got direct you know relationships. And for us, it's like if we're too serious, like how can we authentically show up while we build relationships? Because it's like the coffee industry is so huge and there's so many moving parts, and we just don't want it to feel perfect. So it's hard because it's like it's even bold to go through this industry that we're in and say, like, they've lost the plot and like we're here to fix that. Um, but it is meant to be like rather than kind of like shutting down and feeling discouraged, we want people to know like there are different solutions to every problem, and it doesn't have to look like we've always done it. And I think the industry is changing and it's becoming more warm because third wave got a little bit cold and industrial and modernized to where we lost all the personality, and you can kind of, I'm sure, think about some cafes and when you're walking into places feeling like you know, I'm a clumsy human, so there are some cafes I've walked into being like I should not be here, like I need a cup with a lid, and I sit outside. But you know, I want it to feel warm, and that goes back to even what I said earlier of like, I want you to feel like you're in my living room or in my kitchen, and we're like we're just hanging out, regardless of where you see non-conformity or you know, your experience with that.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

And I think both are so beautiful. I think it's like very fun to have a really fun and exciting and passionate cafe that does feel like I'm just going to my friend's house. And I think it's every once in a while really nice to go and have like this beautiful pour over in front of you. Um but I think it's just getting people on the same page that like all can exist and everyone has a place in this.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah, one is not better. They both are better.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They both are important for that. And it's again like including a few people in history is possible because I think the industry is big enough for it. And I love what you said about that like just one solution is a problem. I think there's a lot of problems in the coffee industry as well. It's like we do try to like constantly use this one solution. It's like that's working. So what do we have to do to change that? And one thing that I'm thinking about from your website, which is interesting, because I was just um chatting with audio from Driftway Coffee in New York. And you and Audio are the only two websites that I worked on this on, where it tells you exactly how much you paid for green coffee. Why did you choose to do that? That's a great. And it's so funny because I literally was talking for the last week. I'd never seen it before. But when I went on your website, I was like, oh, it's like it's here again. This is becoming a trend for me. I'm seeing this. So why did you choose to do that? Why did you choose to share that?

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah, I think, well, we're really lucky. Again, the Vancouver coffee scene and community, I think there's a lot of good coffee and like a lot of good communities out there, but I feel like we're very lucky to be um in our little bubble right now because there are a lot more micro roasters who are starting within the last year with us that have been very transparent about their purchasing and their relationship building. And I think, I mean, I can't obviously speak for all of them, but in the conversations I've got to have with people, it's like when you're starting in coffee, you don't really know anything. And especially on the roasting side, like it's so hard to figure out how to get to importers, and then you I didn't realize that like day to day the coffee price can change just depending on how the market um shifts, which has nothing to do with the coffee that are in the ports, it's just you know, the stock market and how they decide to, you know, now barter us and make coffee feel like it's a a different good. But I wanted to be transparent because when I got into coffee last year and purchasing, that was when it got really volatile. And you know, I was hearing roasters say, Yeah, we used to have 80% margins. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, but how does that give back to the folks that you're purchasing from like if they're getting you know paid $2 a pound? Like I would much rather work it into smaller margins and like set my systems up that they're getting paid because a lot of the farmers don't have access to loans, it's very volatile. So if I can build those relationships with them and guarantee that like every year I want to buy a crop if I have the ability. Um, but because we're so small, I'm not in the place to take those risks and do the big buys and you know, do future purchasing. So it's like, how can I communicate with folks like this is what I'm paying? And this is also like what I feel like in coffee consumers don't understand why coffee costs so much. So it's also nice to like reflect in to be like, you know, it's we bought this at let's say twenty dollars Canadian for the per kilogram price, but that's why it costs thirty dollars for the tin. And like we've been even we've taken it a step further from just talking about the price that we purchased. Every wholesaler gets a little card that breaks down the cost per cup, which I also think is like a really good way to educate people of like it's a $30, you know, tin of coffee for 250 grams, but it works out to like two dollars and let's say 30 cents a cup. And when you think about it that way, you can justify it the same way of like a nice bottle of wine. It's like there's been so much work, so why don't we just like instead of maybe complaining about the price because I know like it's so expensive to just exist in the day-to-day, and I feel like financial business humans like to say, like, well, you can sacrifice your cup of coffee, but it's like it really does matter where it's coming from and like intentionally purchasing, and yeah, I guess like there's so many ways that I want to be transparent in the industry because I struggled to get a foot in the door, so if I can make it easier for folks to go, like, you know, oh, I want to get into roasting, this is how much it kind of costs, you know, and this is kind of what it looks like. Because if we're not sharing like our knowledge, like that's where communities kind of start to fall away. It's like if we're not sharing information and storytelling, like what are we what are we doing? You know, we just zip by, like the days don't make as much of an impact. But I want to give everyone all I know in a way that doesn't completely like take my business out, but so far it hasn't, you know, no one's replaced us, they've just joined alongside us.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

I think it's a good way to look at it too, because I just feel like again, coffee is so huge. And when you look at a business that's very passionate and you're trying to do it your way and make it feel like you, it'll be almost impossible for someone to replicate that in a way that's gonna also feel genuine unless they do their own thing. And it's you know, their their own features. So like helping and educating and mentoring other people and opening doors for other people just feel like an easy way to not only better your business, but also create more businesses that are being more genuine or more transparent and transparency coffee. I feel like we're talking about coffee and also you don't like specialty coffee. I don't think we were talking about it in the right way before. But like customers really didn't understand if you were buying specialty versus something else, or like what the difference was there. And like there's such a information gap, I feel like, that it's like we have to share as much as possible if people are gonna catch up after not talking about it for so long, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

No, I definitely think it does. And it's I know I think there's been like a huge shift in the last couple of years, even before we started thinking about roasting, of giving producers the spotlight. There's like a big shift of putting their names and their pictures. Um, and I think that's so beautiful. But yeah, I think like we've made a big impact in the year because we have importers now reaching out to us and saying, like, oh, we know you buy from woman-led farms as much as you can. And if it's not a woman-led farm, it's a community lot. Um so it's like we want to make sure we're able to make a difference. And like I want the equality to kind of like that pay gap, because it's a lot of men in the uh who own the farms and like the you know, the origins, and it's been really beautiful to find women lots that like you can really see making a difference because 70% of the coffee industry is uh female doing the work and farmers and um like milling lots, they all understand that women have the eye to pick the right cherries where men will just kind of pick them all, and that doesn't really work for specialty. So it's like if we can acknowledge that women are experts in the field, like why can I not find a way to pay them directly, you know, and make sure like I'm making a difference and they're making a difference out here. Like roasters we touch our moments with coffee is like the last five percent, but I don't want the credit of this gorgeous um lot. I don't think I deserve it. So it's like, how can I let you know, like, well, yes, I roasted it and it's tasty, but I did such like little work. It took 10 years for this, you know, to get perfected and shipped out, and so many hands touched it, and you know, once you know that, I think people are starting to understand like why coffee is so important rather than it just like we are dependent on it for making our mornings easy. But there's just so much love in there um that I just get excited to to share and talk about. You know, every bean is literally handpicked, and you know, I used to say that when I trained um Barista as when we would drop beans, like filling up the hopper, I'd be like, every beans handpicked, like as much as we're sad that we wasted those beans, like know that there's some impact behind it.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

You try to work with either female producers or like young producers. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah, yeah. So we we try to um focus on buying not from the big names, so there's a lot of wonderful producers out there that have like a stake already in specialty, and I feel like a lot of specialty buyers are the ones who are just looking for the producers' names, um, like Sebastian Ramirez or like Wilton. Um, they're doing amazing things, but I one of the first coffees I had that really was tasty when I was looking for samples was um Francie out of Columbia with like a beautiful um decaf and she was working on this project, and I just thought like I don't really like I can't reflect on any women's coffees that I've had. And I was like, wait, like that doesn't make any sense. Like, why is it all men? And I started looking into it, and it's like there are female farms out there, and there are community smallholders' lots, and there's like you know, youth getting into this because coffee can feel like a it's not sustainable for those doing the work on the farming side at origin. We were reaching out to importers that know who they're buying from and have long relationships with, so it wasn't just like you know, it wasn't transactional. I wanted it to feel very intentional, so it's like if I can trust you that you can trust them, like it just feels like I'm buying into the community a little bit more. But in the last year, I think more and more female lots are being purchased, which is getting harder for us to even like buy because you know, coffee is agriculture, so there's seasons to where each origin you need to kind of think about harvest times, which has been such a crazy thing to think about. But yeah, I think because they know that I'm not going to fight them on price, I'm just going to take whatever they just like the importers and the farmers will say, you know, I want this much for this lot, I'll go absolutely like I'm not gonna fight you. Here's my comfortable price range for the customers that I buy from. Um, and then as long as I get to know a little bit more about them, I'm happy to just support. And I I've kind of got to the point where I it's I don't know if it's foolish, but I blindly support, like I don't even ask for samples anymore. I just if I get an email saying, Hey, I've got this lot coming in, uh, do you want it? I've got a couple bags, and I'll go, Yeah, sure. I'll take two of them and you know, when it's here, I'll cup them. But that kind of goes into it's like, I don't want to add pressure of you trying to get samples that might not match by the time the bag gets to me. And also, like you're waiting for feedback, and I'm so bad at making sure I'm like timely. So if I can just remove that anxiety and those steps, I'm like, yeah, just if you like if you love it and you've had it and you think it's cool, like I trust you, and I trust that I'll be able to roast it in a way that tastes good. So we just kind of go from there, which has been so fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

I think what's cool about that too is like you're building trust on different levels of just like you know exactly who I'm trying to be and who this company is trying to be, and you know what coffees I've taken before. And it's a partnership now, it's not just me like vetoing things or not, which I think is actually really cool in a sense of like you have that deeper relationship with people that are bringing coffee to your door too.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Especially because I have no experience with like certain origins and they're all new, it's like, yeah, okay, I'll take it. Like, what's the worst that can happen? If it's my budget, like there are times where they try to push something that might not be in our budget when we're such a small business, and I'm like, hey, that's amazing. Like, thank you for thinking of me. I have to say no. Just because I know, like, if I'm trying to build, you know, an industry that people are buying are tins and it's approachable and like accessible to folks. Some of that means turning away like really fancy coffee because I know that that doesn't match like the customers that I'm kind of bringing in. And it is hard to say no because I'm the coffee nerd wanting to buy everything and try everything in. Where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna save that for someone else and let me know who buys it because then I want to make sure I go buy a bag when they've roasted it.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Exactly. Like, what's your customer base right now?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Yeah, we kind of like to say that our customers are folks who love their morning like ritual, but they are curious about specialty, but they're happy. We just kind of call like average Joe like drinkers. Um, so those that are drinking, you know, like Starbucks or you know, like Maxwell House, but they might be a little bit curious. Um, so that's kind of we are not really marketing towards specialty coffee folks, which is really hard for me even going to markets, where I'm like, oh, like what coffee should I buy or what's the difference? And I start like saying all of these like random industry like words, and I can almost watch them gloss over. So it's funny, we now sell our coffee of like, okay, well, how do you drink it? It feels very personal. It's like, do you drink your coffee with milk or without is always my first question. And then it's like, how do you brew it? is then my second question. Because all of our red tins are we say are good with milk. So, regardless of the tin, um, the beans inside, if you see a red tin, it'll probably be safe to go through an espresso machine or um like for lattes, or just if you like milk in your coffee, it'll be strong. Our yellow tins are more fruity, more funky, more delicate, no matter which yellow one, they all kind of go that way. And then blue is decaf. So you know, like, you know, there's nothing worse than going to buy coffee that you think you like the nose of, and then the breeze goes, Do you know this is decaf?

unknown 43:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

So we've made it very boldly labeled decaf on the front, so people also know, like, you know, they don't want I don't want you to feel anxious or nervous or you know that you didn't, you know, pay enough attention. I want it to all kind of feel easy.

unknown 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

It's a safe way to play when there's like less risks, I think, involved.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Yeah, you like pick your color. Like, I'm a red, I'm gonna just stay in red for a little bit and then maybe I'll try something else at a different time. Is there anything else that you've done? Oh no, go ahead. No, you can't what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 43:54

I was just gonna say it's like because we buy seasonally and because we don't have the purchasing. Power right now to buy a bunch of one kind of coffee. I think dividing it in the colors makes it feel safe because we might only have one kind, like one coffee for a couple months. And if you really love it, and then you go like, oh my gosh, like now I have to like make it an executive decision of like what's the next one? Red will be like the similar flavor note. So it just feels like a safer transition than just being like, Oh, you don't have that coffee anymore. Okay, well, I guess I'll just like stop buying your coffee.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

I love what you're doing with your three colors and guiding customers in such an easy way. Is there anything else that you can think of that you've done to make a similar impact for them, make things easier?

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Yeah, I think it's like sometimes hard to know what impact I have on people, especially when it I am just kind of like a one-woman show right now. But I think I always encourage a lot of conversation. Like we do a lot of pop-ups in Vancouver. I try to do one once a month where it's a free tasting where I have cafes that we work with where they just let me set up a table, they donate all the cups that we need and service, and I just bring the beans, and it's like a fun way of like I'm not taking their sales, I'm just out there to talk to people. And more and more people come going, like, oh my gosh, like we've been waiting to meet you because I don't have a space where you know people get to talk to me every day. And it's just a safe place to play, and you know, there's no commitment when it comes to doing these pop-ups, like, as much as we're a new business, it's crazy sometimes to be like we're doing a free tasting and we're doing it pretty regularly. Like, can we actually like sustain this? Um, but our supporters in our cafes have been so good at donating and matching, understanding that like this is part of giving back to community, like people will show up to your spaces, but how can you make it a little bit more approachable? And that's where we can problem solve with folks of being like, Oh, I'm gonna buy this tin. And I say, I always say, DM me, even if it's not my coffee, like DM me if you're having problems dialing in. And one guy was like, My coffee, my porvers always taste bad, but I follow the recipes. And I finally went, Okay, like I hear your problems. What temperature do you set the water to? And he's like, Oh, like 95, 96. I was like, Why don't you try 93? Just like you know, make it a little cooler. And he was like, That won't make a difference. And I got a DM the next morning, being like, It made a difference. Like, this was really good. So it's like I'm always just trying to be there of like, I don't want you to have a bad cup of coffee. And if I can help make your morning like a little bit better, um, and all it is is just you asking me a few questions, like, let me problem solve with you. I've got all this information that I don't get to share anymore because I'm not in the cafe setting. So it's like, please pick my brain. And that carries into our wholesale. Like, we have a portal for all of our wholesale clients that gives them a rundown on how to dial in coffee and how to troubleshoot because, like, if you're taking the risk on my beans, even if it's only once, like I want you to be able to train your staff and feel like you have support, even if I'm not there. So that's been really fun to have like cafes just be like, oh my gosh, like thank you for having this, you know, how to dial in and you know, how to fix the espresso and tasting notes. And it's like, yeah, like why not share all the all the ways I can in small ways, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Do you want to talk about the Tacky Joy Factory collab that you have going on?

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This has been such like a crazy project. We started this drawing board in October. So if you think like we are one month in to being live, and I just remember thinking like, okay, people are starting to respond. We are maybe in like two or three cafes, like not consistently because it's a month in, but I just remember thinking like, okay, I'm starting to build momentum. What's next? You know, I don't just want it to solely be a coffee brand. And this is where, again, Brandy has only good ideas. Like part-time. Um, but they always had a vision of having a space or having a community or a collective where you don't need to be a coffee drinker, you just need like a third space to hang out, which is why originally we were thinking cafes, but then we decided that was like a whole different business model. Um, and they are a skateboarder. Um, that's one of their hobbies. And I just was looking around the house thinking, you know, there's a lot of beer and coffee collabs, and outside of the industry, there's more collabs kind of building, like coffee's becoming something that's like a little bit more playful. And we had one of um Leo Baker, who is like a pro uh queer skater. He had a company, Glue, and or a brand called Glue Skateboards, and we have one of his boards on our wall. And I remember thinking, like, oh, maybe I could reach out to them because they're kind of like they're artsy, and they're skateboarding is very similar to where we want to align with coffee. It's like no matter how big you are, like you're just a person, like that there's nothing really special, like you're just there and you're just doing what you love. And when I looked into Leo Baker, I thought he started a new brand, no longer blue, but Tacky Joy Factory, because he wanted more autonomy in creating and moving authentically, and also having a business that helps his friends kind of like dream and play together. So I reached out to them October last year, and oddly enough, I got an email back saying, Yeah, absolutely, we're down. And I just remember like panicking. Like, what do you mean? Like you said yes, like this is the Hail Mary. Um, and there was a lot of FaceTimes, and I remember telling my wife, and she was like, Holy crap, like you're on calls with Alex White and Leo Baker, like you just know them, like they're your homies now, and like they're texting me, and they're like, What? Like, these are people like my wife looks up to um in the skateboarding community, and I was like, I don't know them, I don't skateboard to me, they are just like random humans. But it's been fun getting to build something very unique because they don't really have any collabs, I would say, like this. Um, and it all just came with Leo wanting to create art, um, which has been really cool. He's been really taken into um expressing himself and just like making a space because the world is very it's very scary for queer folks, and I can't miss saying that there's a lot of weight to show up authentically, and when you have platforms, you do have to kind of like be okay and prepared for the emotional um struggles of being visible, and it takes a lot to just kind of show up, and we wanted to make sure that we are showing up authentically and aligning ourselves with folks who are like, you know, it's okay to show up regardless of what's going on, like your existence still matters no matter the scale. Um so factory rejects is kind of a play on you know being clear and doing things without permission and doing like existing in a way that might not seem correct or you know, manufactured in a way that's normal. We're existing and kind of breaking down those barriers and just existing however we want. So that's been really fun for uh Leo created a design for us and we roasted the coffee, uh, he did the labels, and he gave our baby the very first body. If you can see it on my screen if you go to the website, it's almost like a Toy Story, very put-together machine. And I just remember being like, wow, this is the first time this baby face has a body, and that's like so crazy to me that this is what it looks like. It's even more creepy and kind of like cute, but you're like, there's something weird about this. Um, so it was really cool to just get to design and go back and forth, and they gave us full leading authority, which is like they're a little bit more established. And Alex White um is connected with Skate like a girl and is like a very Alex is like the one keeping us kind of moving forward. I'm so thankful that Alex kind of kept us um on a timeline because you know, being dreamers and creative, it's like things come up, and then you're like, oh shoot, we have this commitment. But um yeah, Alex connected us and said, why don't we sell some shirts and we'll do like a bundle. So we have our shirts, our coffee, and a mug, like a ceramic mug, and we're donating three dollars of every shirt back into the Vancouver skate community. There's um an event in September called Stop, Drop and Roll, where we um it's just women in queer skateboard event that you get to celebrate and just kind of exist together. So we're putting some money back into funding those programs because they're so important. It'll be their 11th year doing this event. Um, and we had our friends who have a print shop, they printed it at Good Luck Studios. They said yes before we even had things done. We were like, hey, we're gonna do shirts at some point, and they were like, Yes, absolutely, like think of us. And um, we had a a lovely creator handmake the mugs, um, which was just been so fun because we wanted it to feel handmade, no matter like where you are and which thing you buy. It's like we want it to feel very homely, and it's just so great to build community with a bunch of almost strangers, but we all have the same idea of just like let's exist and let it it's not gonna be perfect, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

How do you feel now?

SPEAKER_01 53:43

I feel great that it's out there. I feel like I had the shirts and the mugs and I had everything sitting for a little bit, and I just remember being like, how do we release this? What does this look like? Um, Alex and Leah were getting into skateboarding and all of their other commitments in the summer, and I just think I kept thinking like it's got to be released perfectly. Like everything's gotta come out and in a way that like honors everyone. It feels like such a big project because it's been a year basically working on it, and I actually hit to the point where I was like, what if we just release it? And like, even having Leo, like he will text me, being like, Oh, I know I want to post something, but I don't know what to post. It's like hard to you know say what this means, and it's like, yeah, just I had to get it out there, so now that it's out there, take your time. But know, like, you know, there is that pressure to show up online very perfect and clean and polished, and I was like, this kind of goes against what we're building, so let's just throw it out there, and um, it's been really fun because now I get to honor everyone that has been a part of it. So on our Instagram, even though things are live, we're now doing like highlights of the creators. So today I just posted um something about the the guys that printed it for us, and I did a little celebration about who grew the beans and who made the mugs, so it's just great to like have something that you know people can actually see. And it's like our first drop of actual custom merch. We haven't had t-shirts before, other than like going to the surf shop and patching up some like one-offs. So it's been fun to have something that's like fully ours.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

What advice would you give to someone if they were trying to start something new?

SPEAKER_01 55:20

I would say go ask questions. I think the reason we've taken off so it's not smoothly, but it looks smoothly and it feels smoothly being on this side of all of the projects. But it's I even started thinking about roasting. I went to some of my favorite cafes where I was just I had started as a regular and then had like built up relationships with these cafe owners. And I just asked, like, hey, you are really in the industry, you know roasters, like I'm thinking about roasting. Where do I start? What machine should I get? And I had a friend, uh Mike at 1914 uh in Squamish, BC, he actually gave me his sample roaster that he had in the back of his cafe and said, you know, here, use this. And you know, I have uh a little stronghold if you even want to buy that, which I didn't end up getting. I got the bullet even though he told me not to. He's like, I don't get the bullet, everyone gets the bullet. Um but I think it's like when you like you don't need to show up with a business plan and like knowing where you want to go, because how do you know where you want to go if you haven't started? But in asking questions and asking for advice and having conversations, like it means so much because I got to, you know, learn how to roast and I had random cafes that I worked at. I had baristas try my coffee, and um by teaching and explaining and building those moments of vulnerability, like that's what really makes you grow rather than just like hiding until it's perfect. Because I again I even the first batch of beans I sold were basically not even fully roasted, like they didn't have it first crack yet, and people still said they loved them, even though it was like really, really light coffee. So yeah, I think you just like to start. Yes, you can Google things, yes, you can kind of like research, but go ask questions because once you start building that community, once you start building the business, you have a foundation to lean on for support already moving forward. And I think like I've been a barisa for a long time in Vancouver, and I had kept those community um and those relationships up. So when I hit the ground running, people were like, Oh my gosh, I remember you. Like you were here three years ago, this is awesome, doing like latte competitions, but like, yeah, you said you wanted to do coffee or do something. This is so cool, and like you get to feel like it's not as scary because you're not doing it alone anymore, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Do you think community is really like your biggest, almost like superpower with your business is just having a strong community around you?

SPEAKER_01 58:03

I I think so. I I mean, I was very fortunate to find something I loved right away, uh, which was coffee. And that was my my hobby, and I really liked the idea of serving people. So, right out of college, I mean I can't deny, like, I do have some benefit of um and experience with starting a business because I have a business uh degree, I went to school for it. So doing the the back end, the admin, the business plan stuff, and finances came a little bit easier because I knew the theory behind it, even though it's hard to do it for yourself. I kind of had a starting place, but I have always loved coffee, went into it right after I graduated, and I just love taking care of people. I think it's really important to me to celebrate those five moments. If I only get you for two seconds, I want it to be like the best two seconds it can be, and I want to get to know you. And I I love kind of being that bright sunshine for people, knowing that they don't know much about me, but I know that when they leave, they feel better. Um, and I also know what it's like to need community when things are tough. So building my own business and feeling pretty isolated, it was hard, but it's like I even do every Monday, I have a friend who's roasting, and we do uh co-working sessions together as much as we can. So we're getting ourselves like out of the out of our house and uplifting each other, and like you know, the online world makes you feel so lonely, even though there's like big community bids, like when was the last time you were out with people and like your honest self, not you know put together and polished, and that's what really feels so beautiful. And I want people to experience more of that. So if I can show up pretty chaotically and authentically, I hope it encourages people to do that, you know. I am uh, but I also know like I have the the luxury of kind of being an AFAB human um who is white, so I get to move around the world very differently than than others, so I think it is easy and it's a little bit safer for me to meet them presenting in build community where I know there are some folks that there is more steps and more hurdles to building authentic community, and there's those struggles, but um again, if I can help outreach anything I can and use my experience to to better everyone, I'm gonna try. It's not easy, and I won't be perfect, and I think that's like very important to building community. It's like I know I can't fix everything, but if I can help you have a good cup of coffee and have a minute of you know peace, why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

To someone that like wants to start something more authentic. Any advice for them?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Um, I think before you show up, think about the boundaries and the weight. I think I didn't fully grasp what it was gonna be like to be fully authentic to not just my my little community of um trusted folks. Uh so it is really hard to show up sometimes truly yourself and put yourself out there. So I got overwhelmed a lot in the beginning of you know, everyone wants your time, everyone wants five minutes. There's so many problems that they want to bring to you, knowing that it aligns with like who you are, but it's like I actually can't drown myself to lift other people up. So I've had to learn really quickly to put up boundaries. So I even in starting this business, it's like I made sure to prioritize the weekends. So my wife and I like make sure we're not working on the weekends. I actually turn my Instagram on sleep mode, the business Instagram at 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. So it won't notify me about anything, which is really hard because you want to be present. But again, like at what does that like what cost is it to always be available? And even like in my personal life, I try not to talk about business and coffee all the time. It can be hard because I love what I'm doing. Yeah, but even uh Brandy and I actually have uh business meetings every Saturday morning where we go to a coffee shop, and basically I have a Google form that I fill out for the week, being like, here's all the things I want to talk about because they're working as well and they want to come home and actually spend time together and fill up each other's cups so they can't come in the door and have me go, like, here's all the things I have to I've been thinking about, help me. So it all goes in a Google form, and then on Saturdays we get to sit and problem solve together, which is really beautiful. And it's really hard being authentic and showing up and then also being married and running a business. It's just like, oh my gosh, like, how do you prioritize all these things that you know life throws at you? But yeah, really trying to find ways to protect your peace and and shut the world out sometimes is so hard, especially when you're wearing your heart on your sleeve or on your screen for lack of like a better example. It's like you need to be okay with upsetting people. I always um have to be prepared for someone not liking what I'm putting out there and and not take it so personally. Um it's not easy, but it's like it shows that it's it's worked so far. Like it doesn't have to be perfect. And if people don't align with you, like they'll move on. You know, there's more people who are in your corner than not.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

I think that's very true. I can think of all the cliche statements of like you can't be everything for everyone and all of those things like I think that's boundaries, honestly, are so hard. If you have a passion for something when you're like so in love with what you're doing, setting up boundaries for other people, but also for yourself is so hard. I love the idea of the business meeting.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

It's very silly, but I recommend it to everyone now. It's like because it's a passion to you, and like your partners and your friends want to share that passion. But there are some times where it's like, okay, like you've talked about this for like five hours. And you're like, talk about something that's like not work. And when you work from home too, it's like my office is like this on the side of my living room. So it's like I'm looking at it, being like, oh my gosh, I have to tell you about this thing. And they're like, like, okay, I love that for you, but also Yeah, it's cute. Yeah, it's been really fun. It's been so silly to book it, thinking like, oh, we're having business meetings, but I'm like, oh, this is so perfect. Cause now I'm like, there's all the wonderful things that have happened, and you have the capac capacity to feel them and celebrate them with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Is there anything that we haven't talked about yet that you would like to make sure that we talk about in today's episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Um I don't think so. I feel like we've talked about so much. I also am such a gabber, so I'm like, I actually am like I hopefully I said all the things that uh people want to actually hear about. Um, but yeah, I just think like my ending thought, not that we're completely ending, but would be, you know, if you're thinking about getting into coffee, there's room. And I think that's been so scary for a lot of us micro roasters in my local community, but there's room for everyone in coffee, regardless of like it being so big. I think it's like really cool that there's always I always say there's always room for more. You know, people need coffee and need experience and need more joy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Well, thank you so much for being on today. I think honestly, you talked uh before you even thought it I was like, you are absolutely a ray of sunshine. Like you have made my day better just by spending some time with me. And I really appreciate everything that you're doing. I think there's no way you're not gonna be successful with it. I feel like you're just showing up in such a cool way.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for giving me the platform. I think again, like we show up the way we do, and we get to meet so many beautiful people. And I I'm so happy that I can't even remember how I found you and found this, but it's just so beautiful that we get to actually grow a little bit more together.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Okay, sweet. I told you I didn't want to cut anything. I do thank you to Carrie for coming in. I forgot. And as always, thank you for listening. I mean so much by your and real