SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Sidecar. I'm Kate, your host in Sidecar Psychekick. Today I'm sitting down with Anu from Driftway Coffee and this conversation goes in all of the directions. Anu and her husband started Driftway back in 2014, and since then they've built a company that has been incredibly intentional intentional about how it grows. From sourcing and transparency to choosing to build without outside investment and continuing to ask what doing things better can actually look like. We talk about how that mission has evolved over more than a decade, what transparency really means once you get past the buzzword, and the tools that they've built along the way. I'm so excited for you to get into this one. So why don't you grab your favorite cup of coffee and let's get going. Will you tell me a little bit about how you started Driftaway?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Or mine is quite an unconventional story, not very common. But these days it's probably getting more and more common. But uh my background is in like I studied engineering for college and then went to join a marketing consulting company. Um and so, in terms of coffee, I would say at that point for me, it's been very much as a consumer. So I grew up in like the Middle East and India. So I grew up on instant coffee, then sort of slowly, like when I moved to the US, started having, you know, my college campus coffee, which would I remember you would always joke saying, You want some coffee with the milk and sugar? Because it was so mixed up with like milk and sugar, and then so like kind of going through that journey of um Dunkin' and Krispy Kreme and all of that. Um and in parallel, I was sort of I had I was working in a digital marketing firm. Uh, but six, seven years into working, you know, you kind of know how the rest of your life is going to look. Um and I wasn't sure if that was really for me. Um I I was working in consulting, which meant that projects kept changing every couple of months, so you don't get like deep knowledge of one thing. Um, my goal was project management, but which made me feel like I was managing a lot of people who were doing things, but I wasn't directly connected to the work. And just was feeling this general lack of fulfillment from work. Um and at the same time, coffee-wise, what was going on was uh we'd gotten more and more into coffee at home, you know, home espresso machine, um, like a de longie, nothing super fancy, but we were gifted one, so that you know got us into making espresso at home. Uh, and then Suog, um, my partner, my husband, he started he read the book God of the Cup by Michelle Wiseman. Um, and he was like, Oh, we've got to like we can't have pre-ground coffee, we have to have whole bean coffee, we have to have fresh roasted coffee. It has to be in the last two weeks. And this is back in 2012, or yeah, 2012. Uh, we were in London at the at the time. Uh, and so we kind of got onto having a coffee subscription because that way you kind of make sure that you get coffee two weeks from roast and keeps coming every two weeks. And that was sort of how we got into having a subscription ourselves. Um, and at the same time, I was sort of having this sort of moment of what do I want to do with my life. And so um the way I did it was we I took a sabbatical uh from my job, from my corporate job. It gave me like for six months, and my aim was to kind of figure out what I wanted to do. Uh, I had literally no idea what, but I just knew I wanted some time to look for something else, and so part of that we moved to New York. From the beginning, I think one of the things that mattered to me was that I wanted to do work that would matter and have some impact. Like, I think I personally felt like I have certain privileges. I would like that whatever work I do would at least have some sort of impact to, you know, in the world in a way. But I did again have a how. There was no how answer here. It was just like this is what I would like it to be. So when I came here, I was applying for like nonprofit jobs and impact-related jobs. Um, and then at the same time, Sjog and I kept talking about, you know, what do we want to do in life? And we kept just sort of having all these conversations about, you know, how does work play a role in life? And like we talked about having, you know, instead of work life balance, having like like them more connected together, like, you know, actually enjoying your work that much. I regret 12 years on some of this, you know, you really but you know, it came from very much a feeling of like complete um just wanting to do work that we would really care about. And so as we were talking, um, Seog always knew he wanted to start something. And I remember we listened to somebody to another couple who had started something together and was around their shared values and and just how much they enjoyed working together. And at this point, I'd spent like a year or so having this whole, what do I want to do with my life, etc. So I was like, you know what? It feels like let's try and build something together. Um, and coffee was a thing, like when we moved to New York, we were looking for fresh roasted coffee, whole bean uh that would be delivered every couple of weeks. And we're like, hey, you know, we're also looking for a good subscription service. Let's, you know, we can keep talking about this forever, looking for that perfect idea, or let's try it out. Worst case, it'll fail, but at least we learn from doing. Um, and yeah, that's kind of what got us to saying, okay, our first idea was going to be fresh roasted coffee. And we didn't know how to roast. We didn't really know coffee as a consumer. Um, and so we didn't really know coffee as a professional, we only knew it as a consumer. And so, but we did know part of the whole sort of wanting to do work we loved about was we wanted to be involved in the creation. So we were determined to learn to roast, that mattered to us. Um, and we had sort of this idea of how we wanted fresh roast of coffee delivered every two weeks. And yeah, that's it was really loved. And that was kind of how uh my background and how we got to starting a starting driftaway.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Do you feel like with starting driftaway together that it's actually strengthened your values in what started the company in the first place? Like, do you feel like those values have just gotten stronger as the company's evolved?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think for sure. So I think there's like I think for for sure that we um sort of A, we, you know, over time, you know, you're learning the same things, you're sort of growing together, even within coffee, within entrepreneurship, within all of it. Um, so it just keeps sort of growing in that way. Um, and then the other thing is I think what's been great is you kind of learn each other's strengths and you know, you learn how to manage that really well. And you know, if you're better at this, you know, let's do that, and so on, and understanding that over the years. So, yeah, it's been it's been really um, I mean, running any of this is incredibly challenging a lot, but it's also rewarding. So, you know, it's the game.

unknown 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Absolutely, especially when you're starting from the ground up. Like you don't know how to roast, we're gonna figure it out, don't know how to green by, we're gonna figure that out, haven't started something before, we're gonna figure it out. Like there's a lot of challenges in front of you there. Um especially going from nothing, starting fresh, and then building a company that is now Roast Magazine's Roaster of the Year in 2026. What does that feel like for you looking back on where you started?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

It's I mean, honestly, like it's it's too unbelievable for me. Um it is, I think at the end of the day, it feels like you know, all the effort that you put in over the years, like it's been 11, 11 years, 2014, whatever. Yeah, 12 years. Um and so it definitely feels like in a journey where you don't really just always it's ups and downs and ups and downs. That's just like, you know, it's a cliche that that's entrepreneurship, but it's but it really is true. Um, and most of the times I think the problem is that you don't really, whenever the ups are, you are barely celebrating it, you kind of move on to worrying about the next thing. Um and so I think what was really sort of actually what was cool about it firstly was just the application process. They have like all these questions, and for each and every one, we really went really deep about the answer. Like, for example, even like what's your mission and how did it evolve? We really went into our history around like how we started, this is where we were thinking, this is then what happened, this is that, like kind of really did this deep dive article, like really thinking through the history, the how, the what, the why, like things that we, you know, haven't had a chance to ever really put on the website or anything, but we really put that, like gave it that much time, which just by itself was really rewarding because you know, you just see that whole thing and you're like, you don't spend enough time reflecting about all you've done. You just who does that? Like, I mean it's hard to constantly do that. You're always thinking about what's next. So I would say even just the application process itself was kind of cathartic in a way. And then I feel like I think winning it just felt to a large extent like like you're being seen for some for so for all the work you, your team, everyone has put in. Um, so yeah, it was it's it's been very gratifying.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

It is maybe one of those stepping points where it's like, oh yeah, we're constantly problem solving. Like, here's a moment for us to celebrate how far we've come. I the questions from Roast magazine for Roaster of the Year, when I first took over management of the roasting company I work for, I the first year were like, what would it be like to apply for this? And I remember like reading through each question, and I haven't done it since the first time, but I'm like, gosh, this is such a good roadmap as a company to be like, are we doing the best we can here? What have we, you know, like they're just like very straightforward questions, and sometimes you have great answers, and sometimes you're like, that's our weak point. We need to focus on it. And I can I can a hundred percent see what you're saying because it just it is just like that quick check-in that I feel like it's so easy for us to not do because there's always something else to focus on.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah. And we were actually, I mean, we were also really honest about like there was a question, there were some questions where we were just like, you know, we're we're falling short on this, like we're gonna be honest about it. And here's why, here's, you know, this is why that happened. But just even going through that application is a really great way to kind of check in on where you are as a roosting company.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I think that leads straight into transparency with Driftaway. It's like so refreshing to see the amount of transparency that's on your website and that it's just a pillar of who you are as a company. Can you talk a little bit more about why you decided that transparency was important?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah. So I think I think it first started with sort of even just always kind of putting the producer the center of the story behind every coffee. And I think that came from the fact that we were consumers, we were learning so much as we were starting Drift Away. And we felt like, oh, I didn't know all of this. Like, you know, when you a lot of times you have a coffee at a coffee shop, it may have, you know, a certain name to it, but it may not always tell you where the coffee is from. Who's the producer, who are the people behind it? And so when we started, when we started Drift Away from the beginning, we used to send these postcards for every coffee that we've done, which kind of talk about where the coffee's from, why does you know, who grew it, as much information as we have. Uh, and honestly, even like 12 years later, we still do this essentially for pretty much all the coffees we have. Um, and I think, and then I think the next part of it was when a couple of years in for us, so I think in general, the driftaway like over the 12 years, it's been a journey of as we learn more, we change things that we think we need to possibly change to improve. Um, so it was in 2017, so we started 2014, 2017 was the first time we visited Origin. Um, and we went to uh Guatemala and Costa Rica with uh cafe boats at the boat at the time. And it was our first time like visiting farms and with you know so many questions. But um the two things, I think the two things that one thing that came out was like everyone would always, every farm we would visit, we would get asked the question like, where is the coffee coming from? Uh sorry, where's the coffee? Like, what do you think about the coffee? was always the question that we got asked. Like, what do you think about the coffee? And that's when we started like thinking about transparency going both ways. So, not just you know, talking about, yes, all the postcards always talk about where the coffee's from, but like actually closing the loop. And so that's when we started pharma feedback reports, which actually all we actually, because our our uh company was completely like e-commerce, we knew where the coffees were going. So we could actually answer back the question, like, oh, this is where all the coffees went, like in the map on the map. The these are all the different spots it went to. Here are some notes from consumers who are actually drinking the coffee at home. Um, and we were actually able to share that information back in what we call like the pharma feedback reports. Um, I think that was like the next evolution for us um around like just transparency. And along those lines, also, we learned a lot. Uh, along that time, we learned a lot around just like pricing and how, in terms of actually not really having like being able to actually share the price of the the price that we pay for the green coffee and sharing as much transparency around that, and the fact that ultimately pricing is not based on cost of production, but based on commodity, based on uh other factors, well, commodity really. And so this the fact that there were movements out there that were uh people were trying to kind of decouple the pricing from commodity and like transparency from all roasters kind of helps. So even if you can't solve the full problem, can you do your part in solving some parts of it was kind of our way of initially looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

And can you explain if someone doesn't know why it would be important or why it's different for a coffee roaster to share the price that they pay for green coffee? Because it is unique to have it public.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah. When honestly, we just felt so fundamentally, um the fundamentally the price for coffee gets set based on the commodity market, which is the New York Stock Exchange, a commodity market out there. Uh, and technically the commodity market is for commodity coffee, but because that exists as sort of like your baseline specialty most of the time operates as a differential on top of that. So the problem with that whole system is that it's not really accounting for the cost of production. Um, so you know, as a coffee roaster, for instance, you're able to price your coffee based on what are your cost of goods, what are your uh you know, other expenses, and hence here's the profit that you're targeting, and that's your um that's the price of your bag of coffee. This isn't something that necessarily, but on the production side, that the cost that you sell it at, the price that you sell it at can be fairly arbitrary and not really account for the cost of production. So, in many cases, if the commodity prices that are high, yes, you might make profit. If not, you don't. And so, which obviously makes coffee farming challenging, not sustainable for many. Um, and so it is a really complex problem. Um, one of the things is for specialty coffee, and we'd look at specialty as there's more work being done in terms of separating lots, in terms of actually all this extra work to increase your cup score. Um, and so should that really follow the commodity market? Probably not. It should be literally what's the amount of work that went in, what's your cost of production. Um, but decoupling that is like this huge problem that I which I feel like as a small roast tree, you're like, well, I understand this, I would like to do my bit. And so there were the I think that around when did we there was like the price transparency project that was uh and I'm trying to get the actual name, which uh Dr. Peter Roberts from Emory University was doing. So we were like trying to submit information for that. And at the very least, we felt like even just just starting to be transparent about how much our coffees cost us, and then, but then the thing is okay, you throw a number there, but what does that actually mean? So, like actually then saying, so at that same time, uh, what is, for example, the camaraderie price? So just a comparison. Uh, and then the thing that we started was also there were some projects back, I think they're still going on, but there were some projects set up to determine the uh uh fair wage, uh the living wage uh income in coffee communities. And so starting to record that and try and see that you know the price that we're paying is about that. So using that as a benchmark as opposed to you know anything else was something we'd be working on.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

It is like the more that I dig into living wage at origin or like trying to figure out like, am I paying producers the right amount when I buy this coffee? It is so convoluted and no one can give you a straight answer. It's like the industry, it's just like such a deep problem. And even when you're trying to figure out, like, okay, what are first steps? How can I make an impact? How can I do right? Yeah, it's so hard to figure out. And so seeing a different roasting company trying a different way, I think is inspiring because it feels like a lot of specialty roasters want to be doing right by the producers that they work with.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

And you know, and the thing is that I would say, like, for instance, we you know, we started a few things when we first visited 2017. Uh, and then, you know, in my world, like we thought that, oh, we were doing so many things, you know, we were being we were showing the price that we paid, we're comparing the commodity. Um, but then a few years, and I wasn't really, you know, building on that at that point because you kind of feel like, oh yeah, we're doing stuff, we're we're helping. Um, but I think one of the things is that you keep learning new things, and then as you learn new things, A, like A, you should keep learning new things, and B, once you do, what can you do about it? So, like we went for a conference, the Let's Talk Coffee conference, in 2022, I would say. And very much we went there just because we wanted to learn more from a producer's perspective. It was one of those conferences run by Sustainable Harvest. Um, and from whatever we understood, it was more producer-centric. Like majority of the attendees are producers, so you kind of understand more from an origin perspective. Um, and when we went in, we wanted to just learn more, you know, wanted to see like maybe we can explore other projects outside of like drift away by itself, but within coffee, possibly, was our initial attention. But instead, we learned so much around sourcing, inequities, like living wage. I didn't know about the living wage project till then. We didn't know um just about the fact like about like women producers, things like that, like that instead of ever doing anything else, we instead came back here and it changed our entire sourcing and um approach completely, like all over again.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, can we talk about women producers too? I love that you have a goal to have at least 50% of your coffee is from women-owned farms. Why did you guys make that decision?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

That was directly honestly from that one conference. Um because because we we went there, like I said, we were trying to like just in general understand more challenges on the origin side of things. And then when we um and one of the things that came up was uh these conversations from women producers talking about how much harder it is for them to access resources, for um to get financing, even like the you know, the the taboos around like even working and running a farm uh in like remote rural areas. Um I mean we thought we heard so much more about that at uh the Women Powered Coffee Summit just last last year, last October. Um, but that was my first time like learning about all of that and realizing that you know when we were servicing coffee at that point, we were we, you know, we have a big spreadsheet of like all the coffees we get. And like it's we rotate through five coffees or four coffees roughly every month. Um and it's all to do with taste profiles, but we are not really looking at like um like we weren't really looking at like are they women or are they um Many of them are indigenous or minority owned. And the realization that ultimately there is like it's like unfair access to market, essentially. And so if you're not really considering that and consciously thinking about it, then you automatically end up with, you know, whoever has easier access to market. And so you kind of automatically end up with a more lopsided um supply chain. And so, unless you are intentional and conscious about it, um you won't really be able to have a more even value chain, which is why our goal was like, oh, 50% of it should be from women-owned farms. And um, and in fact, our house espresso blend, I think there's a big part of that right now, which is it's from all women-owned farms in Burundi and Guatemala. We call it like the Shearer's blend. And that's what like a lot of the cafes that we work with now, you know, carry use this lid.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I have this theory that as roasters, if we're asking for women-owned farms or women producers, that it will swing the market because there's a demand for it. Is that your theory too?

SPEAKER_00 23:15

That is my theory. And in fact, I believe that we've seen that over the years, and I've I would say we've heard from importers and from um folks because ultimately, like in many times, it's about like you have these huge lots that are from many different smallholder farmers. So I would so it's about a lot separation, so actually separating it out for like separating it out to create an all women-owned um lot. And you know, I think, and I have heard from roasters specifically, I mean not roasters, sorry, from importers that um they've started creating lots for you know that come from women-owned farms. Um and specifically when they know also, I guess, that we've been trying to do this, trying to source explor, you know, so there's obviously a connection there, but like that's kind of how it works, right? Like to me, I feel like that is my theory as well. And I would say I've seen some indicators out there that say that, yeah, people are definitely doing that.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

And it's it's just like cool to be in this stage of coffee where it's like, yeah, that's becoming more popular, that's becoming more a thing because there's that reaction through the supply chain of people wanting to do better. Um, I feel like there's a lot of areas of driftaway that we could talk about. I mean, sustainability is another one of drift away trying to do better. Um, I noticed on the website your carbon footprint um and the project that you're working with that. Do you want to talk about just sustainability for a little bit as well?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah. Um, we one of the things, I mean, for carbon footprint, our goal is our like idea has been to you know measure as much as we can. Um, so we kind of put together a full spreadsheet around our emissions and so on. Um, and then aid to see are there places we can reduce it. So like reducing um reducing air freight, things like that, um on both sides, be it sourcing, be it shipping. Um to in general trying to reduce it and then actually working with carbon offset. I would say like it is really challenging because we were able to do like one level of sort of analysis on like finding the numbers, but you can't like to go all the way and get that full carbon footprint. We haven't honestly been able to as yet, like just in full transparency. It is something I would like to. I think like one of the things we love about the Loring is that the Loring is more uh energy efficient than many others because of the afterburner. Um, but honestly, for me, that is still like a work in progress to kind of keep like to measured in a more detailed level and to actually um yeah to yeah, to just kind of measure at a more detailed level. Like I feel like we had like level one, but not necessarily the next few.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

It's kind of similar to like coffee, like the green coffee and coffee wages and living wages, is like it's so hard to get all the information that you want from it because I think in some ways it is like a new concept to want to offset that carbon footprint. And so I feel like it's not the easiest thing to do always.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

But yeah, you also hear things like you know, about how like carbon offsets are not really necessarily helpful, so then it makes you like analyze that. So it's like this never-ending thing of which is why I'm like, yes, when we started, like when we were working on the carbon offset, it was a couple of years back, and that time you know, we were working with carbon offsets, but then I know in the last few years I've heard a lot of criticism around that as well. Um, and honestly, I don't really have a full answer for it. My thought is that if if you're at least if you're if all you're doing is measuring and then just offsetting it, then you're missing the point somewhere. But if you're measuring, trying to reduce and then offsetting, it feels like a balance somewhere between. Like I think that trying to reduce part is the important part here.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Um yeah. I think what I'm really impressed with of what Drift Away does is that you see stuff that you're like, oh, I'm passionate about making a change there. What could we do? And I'm passionate about making a change there, what could we do? And I'm passionate about this, and what could we do? And like pivoting along the way, as you mentioned earlier, of like, is that the best way forward? Is that the best thing that we could do? I think if I was a new roasting company or if I had the same kind of heart as what you're describing and all the passions, it would feel overwhelming to be like, I want to make all of those changes as well. But how do you start? And like, how do you start to kind of have those impacts start to pile up a little bit where you get to the point where Driftaway has these different pillars that you can look at and be like, wow, that's really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Yeah, I think like to me, it is I think one of the things that we get lost in, or like at least for me especially, uh, I'm a Virgo. And so, like trying to be like perfectionism, um, and you start to tell yourself it's okay if it's not perfect. It's okay, like just start. And it may not be 100% there. Um but once you at least go through that journey a little bit, you understand more, you learn more, you apply it. Um and it's and it's okay if it is not perfect, like it's okay to kind of keep iterating the more you learn. Um, I think the I think the important part is that you keep learning more and that you because it's also like even like learning more is not gonna just happen, right? It's something that you have to kind of you have to make it happen. So um, so I think like for me, like and so and the more you learn, the question is then what are you gonna do with that learning? Are you gonna actually change? Like, is it just like, oh yeah, I know more, but automatically, I think the thing is also that when you run a company, automatically your brain, everything that you learn around that is more like, wait, do we do that? Should we do that? Like, that that sounds like the right thing to do. Like, what do we need to do to make it happen? And then, and thankfully, we've had a we have had a great team that's honestly been able to like like I remember coming back from Let's Talk Coffee and sitting down with uh our rooster Ian, you know, Ian and Silk are the ones who are mostly involved on the green buying side, and the three of us and and James McCarthy used to work with us as well, and four of us like talking together, being like, all right, so what do we need to do? Like, you know, we've learned all of these things about how, and we think it's important that we try and change our sourcing, where like from if we have all these coffee farms and coffees we're working with, how do we create a system where we can slowly shift so that at least 50% are from the old farms? And and I think the fat like, I think A, you learn that, then you actually have a great team that helps you like implement all of that. And it and it's like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Like, yes, of course we should do it. And it's down to you know to make that change for Driftaway.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Is there anything that Driftaway has done either with transparency or sourcing or anything like that, that you've gotten any negative backlash from trending against what the norm is in coffee?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Definitely for um the um the women on farms part itself. Like um, we've gotten emails, I think I long it's been a couple of years, but I remember uh I think especially when we were announcing a lot of it when we were first making that change. Um and I seen and I I think I've even put this, we had a whole Instagram post about it as well because we'd get emails that says that um that's not equality, like you're not being equal, you should just source the best copies, it doesn't matter where it's from, and sort of explaining the difference between what equity is versus what equality is, and explaining why it's important to kind of honestly like this is keeping it even, and to get it even, you need to kind of prioritize that because if you don't do it, you'll have a very uneven value chain instead. So, yeah, we've definitely gotten emails from people um from customers and consumers uh angry about some of these same choices that we make about sourcing.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

And in those moments, do you feel like it actually just strengthens your belief that not only like yes, we should be doing this, but also it's giving me an opportunity then to share this knowledge with people, like they might not know that this is important?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, absolutely. Um because I mean, I feel like we, you know, we had convicted, we had learned so much about it at that point, and we so it's about like, okay, let's explain. Let's this is where we stand, this is why we think it's important. Um, you know, and if you don't want it, that's fine. I mean, there you can go elsewhere.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yeah, there's a million coffee roasters out there. This is what we're gonna be doing though.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

This is what this is this is what we I mean, fundamentally it's just I feel like laying it out, right? Like this is what this is what we know, this is what we are um this is what we believe in, and we're doing the best that we can at the moment. Um and yeah, and that's really it. And like I mean also like explaining like here's what we know in an approachable way, and not you know, not being condescending, not being like I I don't think change like I don't think you can have other I don't think other people will change their mind if you are not sort of explaining it in a respectful way, in like in a con like if you're doing it in a condescending way. Uh, I think if you truly want change, then you have to sort of try and explain it in the most you know even way possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

And that's another area that Driftway is really passionate about is having an approachability to coffee and letting people at all stages figure out, yeah, like this is where I am, no judgment. I just want to learn. Can you tell me a little bit more about that too?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, I think so. It kind of started right from the beginning when we were even coming up with like the coffee subscription and we had people um try out different coffees. Like it started with we send it to all our friends. And um we were just kind of coming up with the idea for Driftaway at that point. And I remember we would ask them, like, do you like light roast or medium roast? And people would say something, and we send them their samples, we send them samples of coffee. And then we realized that even the language around what a light roast is, what a medium roast is like completely there is no uniform language for it. So one person's light roast can be another person's medium roast, and so on. Um, and so even realizing like small things like that, I think made us realize like sort of just how complex coffee can be in terms of even as a consumer, even like having the right vocabulary for it. Um so for us, it's always been like, you know, we've always had from the very beginning, it's been having five different roast levels, uh, everything from a light to a dark. Um the the we have an explorer box that starts your subscription. And the idea is instead of going through a quiz or something, you actually just try all the coffees out, see which ones you like based on your taste, let your taste best decide. Um and then fix that profile and you get a new coffee for that profile every month. And the idea being that just drink what you like, make it the way you want to make it, make it the way you enjoy it at home. Um, and as long as you love it, let you know, nobody needs to judge you for that. You know, as long as you're enjoying your coffee, that's great. We also like even with our uh postcards and all a lot of the education and the stories behind the coffee, we try to do this approach of paddle, swim, dive, which is um, for instance, you know, you have your coffee, it has your coffee label, it has like the first setup information about the coffee. Um and so if you if that is all the information you're interested in as a consumer, uh then that's great, that's it. The next level would be we have that postcard that tells you a little bit more about the coffee. Um and so it's for the person who wants to learn just a little bit more. They want to know the stories behind the coffee. And that like people have like love and appreciate those postcards so much. Like over the years, I've seen people like lay out all the cards that they've gotten over the years, and it's so and even today, if we miss the postcards, it's like, oh, where is where is this postcard? Where is the postcard? Um, but again, I'm sure for many people it may not be important, right? So it's like understanding that some people want, you know, that first level of knowledge, and that's good enough for them for the next set. They love learning the story behind the coffee, and and then there are people who want to dive even further, so that's where the website has even more information. Um, so that's kind of how we try to keep it without it being overwhelming, where there's like depending on how much you want to learn about the coffee, there is like three forms of it. And and then we used to do and we still do uh virtual tastings every two weeks on um on Zoom. So you can actually now get all the five coffees. You can join a virtual tasting. Or uh we have an educator, Julian, who lives in Kansas, and they go through actually cupping all the coffees virtually all five profiles. Um, and so that's like your deep dive where you are actually doing sort of a cupping at home and learning where each of the coffees are from with a live educator on the on Zoom.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

That's really cool. It's cool, like that access to things. I feel like isn't that common? I mean, there's some people that will do that with you, but a lot of times you like have to be at the roastery and have to be like set up to a class, and even then, like those classes can be like not that frequent, where like maybe it's like once a month you can do this. I hope it works out. That's like very cool. And I like that you've set it up in a way where it's like it doesn't overwhelm the person that just wants to try a coffee. Um, that maybe they're not ready to go into like a cupping room or like that that's not required of them. It's just very approachable to like have some good coffee.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah, that's what we've tried. So I hope, yeah, I'm glad that it kind of comes through. Um, the virtual tasting started in 2020, actually. You know, that makes sense. It started as a thing, exactly. It started like something we wanted to do. We were like, oh, you know, holiday season's coming. Uh, for a lot of people, you can't be with your uh loved ones. We were all bored of the very boring virtual calls at that point. Uh so like how can we do it over something like a shared interest? And coffee seemed like it just seemed like the best way to do it. So that's where I started, and now it's been what five years, 66 years. God, time passes.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

And now you have a tasting room in front of the roastery. How is that? That's a whole new challenge, I'm sure. A whole new exciting project.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Whole new exciting project. I'm still learning constantly. Um started last March, last yeah, last March. Um, and you know, we I haven't I so one of the things is because of our backgrounds, neither of us have actually worked as baristas ever. So also like learning to operate a coffee shop, and that too is not a typical coffee shop, it's like this different place where it's like tastings, yeah. So it's been like really interesting and fun on all levels. I think one of the biggest things that I didn't realize actually when we opened the tasting room is uh we've been around as a company for like 10, 11 years at that time, and we had been shipping coffees everywhere, you know, getting emails from customers, you know, when they love it, and so on. But the actual joy of like physically presenting a coffee to someone, seeing it in front of you, which you know, it sounds obviously sounds very romantic, it sounds very duh, but like honestly, I genuinely have appreciated and really loved meeting people directly, hearing from them. Um there's just that part of it that I didn't anticipate uh truly loving it. Like I think like when we were opening, I was just anxious about opening it more than anything else. There's all the things that could go wrong, is all I could think of. Um, so actually seeing that, like that still never gets old.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

It's my favorite part. I love it. I love sitting next to someone that's enjoying coffee that either I roasted or I know where it came from exactly, and them sipping it and be like, wow, that's so good. It there's just nothing like it to have someone enjoy something that you so deeply have been a part of. It's uh that was actually the next question I was gonna ask you is like, what was it like to actually have someone try your coffee in front of you that you had prepared? And it's it's so special. There's nothing like it.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

It really is. Um, and it's just it's just not something, you know, you hear about it, but I'm like, yeah, sure. But no, it truly to me, even like now it's a what a year and a bit in of doing that, and it's still really beautiful. And then I mean, a year and a half a year and a bit in, you know, you have regulars, you have people who come so often. Uh, you get to kind of know more about you know what's going on with them, with their lives, uh, what they're into more. So yeah, it's been really fun. And then the tasting experience, you know, where we so for context, like we, you know, it's front of our roasteries, so it isn't really heavy for traffic or anything. Um, and so you have to kind of know where we are to come over. And so to kind of, you know, see it get popular over the last like over the many few like many months, actually. Um, yeah, it's just been really incredible. It's been also challenging, but also really, really fun and incredible.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, just like a completely different set of challenges and learning experiences, though. Like the idea that you haven't had a background in being a barista, like so many people in the industry start at that role and then like fall deeper and deeper in. I think it's really fun to be a barista. Like that skill set is really fun to learn. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah. And like, yeah, I would I that is something like I want to build on. Um because like I I've been doing, I've been working on the pour over side, but like not on the other side, but even just like you know, doing it for the first time that you're feeling it's just learning, but then there's so many other things you also have to do. So it's it's a learning process for sure. Um, but it's been really fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Are there other areas that you're either feeling really passionate about with Drift Away or hoping that Drift Away goes in that direction, or other things that you're hoping to learn? Maybe it's the same, like either a passion or something that you want to learn more about in the coming months or year?

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Uh I mean, I think for us our next step is we are opening like a seven days week regular cafe. Wow. So we signed. Yes, I know. I never thought we would. I yeah. Wow. Um, but it feels like the next right step for us. Like, and I think I think part of doing the tasting room the way we did it was for us to just get comfortable with what it's like to run a shop because because we haven't done it before. Um, and so we we've signed a lease, it's gonna be in Williamsburg. Um and it's uh but it's not opening till spring sometime. So yeah, I think that's gonna that's our big project. That's super exciting. Yeah, it's super exciting. We're we're excited. Um and so I think the idea is to learn in the next few months, especially you know, with the tasting room, but now in mind with like how do we learn how to set up operations, process, all of that. But you know, keep playing testing it out in the tasting room so we can like take it to the next place. Um, and I mean we're lucky we have an incredible team of baristas and people who have a lot of experience. So um, yeah, that's I think the next big thing for us at this point.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Wow. That's very, very exciting. Congratulations. That's huge. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

I'm still absorbing it. We we recently we just signed the lease like a week or two, about two weeks ago. Oh wow this time. It's really fresh. Very new. It's really fresh.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Oh my gosh, so exciting though. And it's almost kind of nice that you don't have the background and starting from a Because you can look at it through your lens, your values, what you want it to be, how you want it to show off your company. Like it's kind of cool to start with the roasting company and then move into a cafe space when your values are already so set, versus sometimes people open cafes and then start a roasting company or whatever they might do. You know, like um when your values are just set and what you want it to be, it could just be such a cool place.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

It's true. I mean, you know, honestly, at the end of the day, though, there like there's so many ways to do this. So, like, as long as I think you're doing it with intention, you're working hard and you know, trying to build something meaningful. Um, I think that's all you can be proud of at the end of it of.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah. Do you feel like after that time where you're like, I don't know what I want to do with my life, now you found it?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Very much so. I think um I think for sure one of the things I have really enjoyed is like even just people in the coffee industry and the industry itself. I think that's the part that I obviously had no idea about. Um and meeting different people from, you know, meeting different people who are so passionate about coffee, who are so passionate about sustainability, passionate about, you know, making a difference. Um I think that's been one of the most rewarding parts of making this change, but also that's part of what makes me think like, oh, this is what I definitely like. I can't imagine doing anything outside of coffee.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

If someone new in the coffee industry was coming to you for advice, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 45:41

When you're when you're new in the industry, when you don't know much, um, and honestly, I mean with coffee you're constantly learning, but it can feel sometimes intimidating. Um and I think I think what I would say is that sometimes even if it feels intimidating, just like actually all the people around you are truly welcoming. And so it might feel like that to you because you're not sure, like for instance, cupping rooms can be quite intimidating, but to kind of keep pushing through it and you'll find out that like behind all of that, people are genuinely very nice and very kind and um and welcoming. So what might seem a bit scary, I would say keep pushing through. Um, because I think one of the things that in the beginning that sort of made me kind of pull back a little. And I think um, yeah, so my recommendation would be to not do that and to just kind of find places and find people who are more values aligned with you and um kind of find you a little space in the industry and in that world to learn more and grow more.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

This was very fun. Thank you, kid. There was your yeah, this is so beautiful of the questions you've come up with. I know you've done so much research. It's amazing. Your website made it very easy.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Oh your website made it very easy to come up with these questions. As always, it's so special to spend some time with you, and I want to give another shout out to Anu for spending some time with us as well. I am continue to be so inspired by just what she has helped build with Driftway and where they're taking the business. And I absolutely cannot wait to go to their cafe. So I hope that you took away just as much as I did. Um again, thanks for being here. Thanks for supporting Women in Coffee, and I can't wait to talk to you again soon. Bye y'all.