SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Sidecar. I'm Kate, your host in Sidecar Sidekick. And today we're sitting down with the co-founder of Bean Voyage, Sung Yi. Now, I bet you kind of have heard those names before, but I'm really excited for you to explore more about what Bean Voyage is and also Sungye's part in the coffee industry. We cover all sorts of topics, mostly leaning into how to support female coffee producers in Latin America, but also what it's like to start an incredible nonprofit. So sit back, relax, grab your favorite cup of coffee, and let's get right into it. I think one thing that I'm really curious about whenever I talk to anyone that has started a project or an organization that I think is really inspiring is can you pinpoint a spot where you were like, this is this is what I want to do or this is how I want to take this or like that this project came to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, it's actually really interesting because I feel like there were a series of things that happened that got us to kind of where we are today, right? But I think if I were to kind of pinpoint one event um was in 2014 in December when I went to Costa Rica for the first time. Um Abi was part of this group that we went and we were helping out a friend of ours, Nicole, um, who's from Costa Rica, and she reached out um asking for help um in terms of fundraising and whatnot. And um after fundraising for about like a semester or two, um we raised enough funding to go to go, you know, donate this money to the community, and then they invited us to actually come meet them. Um so that was in 2014, December. Like we just kind of like took on a flight. We were the third year in um university, didn't really know what we were doing in life, I guess, other than like it was a winter break, and you know, the group invited us to actually come visit them. Um, so we did, um, and it was it just accidentally, like coincidentally happened to be coffee farming season. Um, and then the group that was gonna look after this building that we were donating money to happen to be the Women Um Women's Association in the group. So just you know, without planning from day one of arrival, we were kind of like seeing everything that had to do with coffee farming um from the eyes of the women um in the community. Um, to be completely honest, I didn't know coffee was a fruit before getting there. I vaguely imagined it being like beans of a sort, right? Like we kept been calling it like coffee beans, so I kind of thought that it would be my legume, you know. And then you get there and then you're like, wow, there are a lot of red cherries. What are they? And they're like, oh, they're coffee. You can actually like pick them and taste them. So before even I knew how to brew a cup of coffee for myself, I was actually picking cherries. Um, and through that, you know, three weeks, I think we spent about like three weeks and a half through our time there, kind of learned a lot about the coffee industry, but from the eyes of the women and how much they were getting paid per kilo of cherries that they're harvesting, um, what kind of resources that they had, um, where they learned all those things, um, you know, everything that they knew about coffee from. And um, and I I majored in economics and my math side of the brain was kind of doing math, and quickly realizing not even you know, 5% of what I was paying as a consumer was reaching the hands of the producer. So I think that was kind of like an eye-opening moment of like, wait, wait, wait, where is all this money going? Like, I'm paying, you know, five dollars per cup um in the States, um, and they're not even earning you know, two dollars per kilos or more of the coffee that they were producing. And and you know, you can do like the quick ratio calculation, and you're like, okay, like a lot of the money is just kind of like going, like missing. And and I think that got us very curious. And Abby, and I as I mentioned earlier, Abi is my co-founder, and I'm on Jimboy, right? So we were we were there together and then we're kind of like unpacking this together. We're still students, um, so we didn't necessarily have anything that we could do. At least that's how we felt. We were like, okay, like that's interesting. Um, but let's kind of like go back to school um and now you know continue. But instead of just kind of like forgetting about it, what we did was actually meet every week to read one thesis on coffee. So we um brought together a group of friends that were very stuff, like there was one verse. I can't say there were baristas, there's literally one verse in our group who really knew what she was talking about. Everyone else, we were like cool as um, and like you know, computer science major, like all like all sorts of friends who like kind of found this idea intriguing. And we, you know, we came together, um, just randomly named ourselves Pin Voyage because we had a um friend who was majoring in French, and he said, like, how fun would it be to call ourselves Pin Voyage, you know, like French word Pon Voyage, and kind of like started with that. Um, and yeah, and then it evolved. Um, for the last one year in um in our university, we just like met every week, every um every Friday. And as soon as we graduated, um, some of us got some scholarships, and we were like, let's actually go back to Costa Rica to see um what we read um you know throughout like this one year is something that's true, um, also in other communities that like, you know, outside this community that Nicole comes from. And especially I think what was called out during our time together, like you know, studying together, was actually the role that women have in Kofi, how globally and data at the time, it back in 2015-16, data at the time was still not complete. And even today, right? Like, I think we still need a lot more data um on gender, um, especially women in Kofi. But um, what we've been, what we were reading, were kind of pointing that there are like up to 70%, you know, um there are up to like 70% of the um labor force on coffee farm are women, and we often as consumers have no idea where they are and they're invisible to the eyes of the consumers. And that was quite true. Like we went to specialty coffee shops afterwards who claim to be doing direct trade, and um, it was quite hard to see female names um on the package. It was always Manuel Carlos or you know, other uh men's name, but not women's, and we just kind of were like, well, that's kind of like similar to what we saw in this you know berry town in Perez Aledo. Let's see if it's also true in other communities in Costa Rica, it was just one town that we were in. Would it be actually true for, for instance, for Darazul, which actually produces 40% of the country's um coffee? Would that also be the case? Um, in that so we literally took a flight um a week after graduation. Four of us out of, I think we were a group of nine at the time, four of us were serious enough to go to Costa Rica, spent about another month and a half, and then by the end of it, it became three of us, and then became the two of us that kind of like stayed with the idea. Um, and on that last trip in 2016, we met Erica um and her family, who basically shaped everything that we do today. So that was kind of like I'll say how everything kind of like came together, but it wasn't really like one thing that happened, but like multiple things um that led us to be where we are today, 10 years later.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Wow. It's amazing to me that it's like we were already doing this project that didn't relate to coffee, but then it did relate to coffee, and then we were just so curious and we decided to follow the curiosity. And also what a cool group of friends that you like came back to university and everyone's like, yeah, let's meet every Friday and talk about this and dive into these numbers. When I first got into coffee when I went to a roasting, the roasting company that I work for now, I remember seeing the green beans for the first time and being like, I don't know how it got on the shelf, but it wasn't like that. Like I don't know what I thought coffee was, but it definitely wasn't a cherry on the tree and then it definitely wasn't this green thing here. And it it's just the disconnect that I think we have, even though we drink coffee every single day, what the livelihoods and the people that are harvesting our coffee and producing our coffee, what the reality actually is in being one of those people.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

You know, growing up, we knew that apples fell from a tree, right? Like that's something that we knew. But I wonder how many people actually know that um cocoa, like the the you know, how the fruit tastes like or what it looks like. Um, but then we grew up eating chocolate bar for like, you know, years as a kid. And there I think there are some crops in the world where because of the way it's been traded, especially, and um, it's oftentimes associated with the colonial history of like how the trade system has been set around, like you know, to protect and hide the origin of it. Um, that we as consumers are basically just kind of like oblivious um to what is behind the curtain. And when you don't know as a consumer, there's not much you can do either. So I think that's how sometimes I feel like about like coffee. I think we've made like I'll say like we've actually made a lot of progress, I think, as an industry. Like um, I think there have been a lot of movements that have been trying to really like um remove that curtain and make it visible um as much as possible to the end consumers. Um, but at the same time, I think even then there's still so much that we don't know. And I think that's the complexity of this world, right? The complexity of this industry is that um every single community that even we work in is very different and it's it works differently. Um, not a single model can fit um in every single community that we work in, and we have to always adapt. And I think that's kind of like the complexity that this um industry also has that has made it difficult, more difficult um for consumers to actually also act on it, though.

unknown 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah. I think, I mean, it all makes sense in the sense of like you don't want to know that the person that's harvesting your coffee is not making a livable wage or even maybe not even making money. Like that's not what you want to think of when you're having your morning latte, right? Um so it definitely is very intentional that you have to be curious where things come from. But I think it also leads into the segue of companies like Bean Voyage and the work that you're doing to make it so that you do see the people that are producing your coffee and also those people are making better wages, and particularly the women that you work with. I think again, looking at the Bean Voyage website and what you've accomplished in such a short amount of time is insane to me as far as like working with so many different women producers. And I feel like it was like you you probably know the number better than me, but over 200 producers and getting their coffee into the market and them making more money from that coffee. I mean, that's all steps in the right direction. And I do think customers now, like you said, the coffee industry is talking more about producers and bringing more to light what it is actually like to be a producer. And I feel like consumers now are like, oh, that's something I can support, that's something I can get behind. How do I, how do I get involved with it, I guess? Um and from a roasting company standpoint, I'm always curious. Like, I love buying coffee from women producers because most of my staff is also women in in the roasting community. It's something that isn't always true. Like there's a lot of men roasting companies. Um I love to buy from women producers because it's like passing it down the chain, right? But how do you do that as a roasting company? How do you support women producers without it becoming like a marketing thing or performative? Like, how do you know that you're actually doing good work with female producers?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Great question. Um Yeah, I think obviously we can answer it from like different angles or on like, you know, is your partner are you actually buying, like, do you have a connection directly with your um female producer partner? That I think would be a very different um sort of answer that I could give. Or are you actually working with an importer who tells you that this is coming from a women farmers and whatnot? And I think maybe starting from like the importer side, um, I think it's important that you ask as many questions as possible around, you know, the basics of like what's the farm gate price that the producers are getting? Is that actual farm gate, or is it a the payment that's being made to the exporter? Um and from there, how much of it actually goes to the miller, or is the women responsible for milling um or processing? And how much are they actually earning at the end of the day? And what's that money in comparison to, let's say, minimum wage in that town or in that state, um, or the living income that I think um more and more data is currently being available, becoming available for different countries.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

So okay, friends, a quick note on farm gate pricing. Farm gate literally means like at the farm gate. So what the producers themselves made before going on to the next steps. When you're buying green coffee, you typically don't get this breakdown, you know, like what the farmer was making, what the milling process made, exporting, all of that kind of stuff. You just get like one number. Like this coffee is gonna cost you four dollars. So farm gate simply means cutting everything else out and understanding exactly how much the producers themselves took home.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Then you are able to kind of like then say, hey, this is actually a fair price and whatnot, and not necessarily only kind of like judging that price um against a C market price that we all know isn't based on the living cost or cost of production um on the ground, right? It's definitely like definitely outside of that. Um, so I think that's like that that's one way. Um, and also kind of like picking your importer based on like are they actually doing things beyond just buying? Are they actually investing um in the communities or the women, um, the work focused around like gender um and whatnot, or are they also just kind of buying it because it's a it's an easier thing for them to sell at a higher price, right? Like are they are they committed or are they using it as a marketing way, like a marketing um tool? So I would definitely say that's like one thing. But if you are working directly in one way or the other, even if you have to work with um importer, but you're connected directly to the producers, I'll just always ask, like, well, you know, what are your challenges? What are things that you enjoy? What do you need? What do you want, what do you want me to do as a roaster? And they will actually tell you. And the answers are going to be very different, and we always get different answers from everyone because it's at the end of the day their choices and their different individuals, right? Like I think we sometimes make the mistake as an industry to put all the women in one basket and say, hey, um, these are women farmers, their needs are, you know, one, two, three, like, you know, a list. And we as individuals have different needs and different dreams. And I think um it's very important that we don't fall into that and actually just ask um that individual partner or the meal or the co-op that you're partnering with, of like, what's your biggest you know, goal that you have for the upcoming year? How can I actually partner with you in that? Is there anything that you can you need from me? And oftentimes we we we've asked the same questions and obviously different answers come from them. And oftentimes there's a you know common thread around consistency um in buying, being able to predict, right? Like um, if you're committing to buy from one group, can you actually make sure that you are committing um to continue to buy it as long as you can? Um, pricing, um, not necessarily relying on the same price at all, and actually setting us independent pricing that works for both sides. And being on the same table as partner has always been something that we've been very conscious about and have been hearing a lot from the producers. But I'll definitely say, like, yeah, ask the question um to the partner and they'll let you know. They maybe in the beginning will be shy, but I think you can always icebreak and say, no, just tell me. Tell me what you need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think more people are moving towards an independent price model that's away from the sea market just so that it is more sustainable on both sides?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I think it's very difficult to generalize. Um, I see that happening for specialty buyers, right? Um, I think that's something that we've been advocating as well. We partner with specialty importers and we make it very clear from the very beginning that producers at the price. You guys can tell me what you think after they tell us. Um, so the way we've been working is producers, when they give us a sample, they give us a price that they desire um for their coffee. Sometimes it's like a lot more than the market price. Then we'll tell them, like, we'll propose this as a you know desired price and then see the reactions. And we always make sure that importers know that these prices are negotiable because producers are also quite open to that. Um, and then from there we start the conversation rather than saying, um, I think the traditional way of saying, like, hey, the sea market is at, let's say, $3 per pound now. I'm gonna give you 20% premium on it, to accept it or not, which I think is um more commonly um practiced way of buying coffee, um, even today, I'll say. Um I am hopeful because I think more and more people have been receptive of how we approach it. And I know other people who are also doing similarly, especially um I would definitely say it's probably possible because we are smaller at scale, like we're not like dealing hundreds of containers, right? Like I've I have stories of importers rejecting our um our contract because of one cent difference that they had between ours and another competitor. So um I'll definitely say some are a lot more price sensitive. Um, but same time I think um I like to pay attention to the the the you know the the hopeful side um where the change is happening and how more and more buyers are now intrigued and I think willing to also um try it out. I love it as a buyer.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

I love when someone comes to me and they're like, this is gonna be this much money. And we're hoping that it's sustainable and for the coming years, like this is what we're foreseeing, unless like quality improves or something like that. But it's just it's so much nicer, especially when the sea market has been all over the place in the last few years where it's like, okay, I just know that you're taken care of, that's the price I'm paying. It's great coffee, and like can move forward versus being like, should I close today? Should I wait tomorrow? Like the pins and needles. I'm not a risky girl. I like, I like to just know.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

I feel like there's yeah, it's really important that you have that certainty, you know. I think for everyone, especially I think coffee growing and farming in itself is already quite risky with climate change and whatnot. And you already have to deal with so much uncertainty around if if at you know, at even in um some cases, if at all you're gonna have trees or cherries or harvest next year. Yeah. Um, so I feel like when you can control some parts of it that's within our control, it gives you so much security. Yeah. Okay. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Let's talk about some of the initiatives that you and Beam Voyage do for women producers.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

We run three primary programs: um, the Farmer School, Women Power Coffee Collective, and Women Power Coffee Summit. Um, Farmer School is our flagship program that we've been running for the longest time, where um you as a producer join a school for about 12 to 15 months, depending on the cycle that we set out for. And I think we're leaning more towards now, like for the 15-month um school um program where you join as a cohort, a cohort of 50 to up to 250 producers. Um, and we go through a journey together as a cohort to learn about things that matter to you. So the curriculum has been shifting um based on like the needs and necessities of the communities that we work with. But recently, a lot more um I think recently we've been shifting a little bit more towards like the market readiness, as that's been kind of something that we've been hearing more and more um from the producers that we work with. We're also shifting the way we work with um work with the program and the producers a little bit. Previously, it was individual farmers who could sign up. Um, even if you're part of the cooperative, you'll be kind of joining as an individual producers, but we're actually moving more towards a collective methodology where we um where we think it's a lot more sustainable for the group, where we do in-depth training for the trainers or the representatives from each group. So you um have about five to six um representatives from your um your cooperative associations or informal working groups um who will be then this um kind of getting like in-depth training from our team and our um groups of um instructors and um experts that we collaborate with to be able to then go back and train your um members um of your collectives. Um and we've been doing this for the last 10 years. Um and the curriculum has been um like you know quite varied, as I mentioned, but um primarily on the market readiness, as I mentioned, that includes pre-harvest practices, post-harvest practices, you know, marketing your coffee, understanding the cost of production for your coffee, so financial literacy and business. Um, and we have an um um in-house curriculum on gender and community, um, where we actually talk a lot about um the importance of self-care, because I think as women, we very much forget that all the time, especially if you're a rural woman who's a mother, who's a wife. Um, so that's kind of like a big component of the work that we do. And we also do what we call um kind of like a development of an action plan where we engage them on their dreams um as a young girl, bring that to like where their dream is today, um, and then help them shape their action plan to achieve that um dream. So that can be about you know, something about your business, what you want to do, or getting your coffee. To the market or anything, right? Like, what's your dream when it comes to yourself? Like you as a coffee producer, what's your um biggest dream that you've been wanting to achieve? And how do we actually break it down to make that doable and achievable? And the part of the farmer school is also the SIT Capital. So we provide them with small grant um to help them kind of like kickstart their dream. So oftentimes it's like their very first investment that they ever receive. It's a it's an investment, but it's a grant, sorry. Like we are not going to ask them back, ask the money back. Um, but um it's kind of like their first um proof of stamp or stamp of approval that they are getting from someone else to say, hey, your idea is great. You should go out and get, you know, speak about it, pitch it to other people. And that's something that we've definitely seen where groups have received a very small grant of $2,000 from us, and then with that same proposal, went out to apply for their local governments to support with another, you know, bigger grant and so forth. So that's something that we like to see. And once they graduate from the farmers' school, at the end of the 15 months, they become part of our alumni network, and then they then um can um participate in two other programs that we run, which is the Women Power Coffee Summit and which um Women Power Coffee Collective. Um the collective is the exportation um program where we provide quality assessment support as well as a logistics support for um producers who might have you know too small of a quantity of coffee to be able to export or discover their market themselves. So we support them with the QC as well as the logistics and finding of the partner and market, uh market partners who are reliable and connect them. Um and it's kind of like a program that we've been running um ongoing for the last seven years or so. And the summit came kind of as like a last piece um to all of this puzzle. Um, this is our fifth year um doing it where um we create it's an annual gathering for women and everyone who cares about gender equity in coffee um to come together to truly, in fact, conspire to build a better coffee industry. That's kind of like how we started. We started with 150 participants and said, well, we need a small room where we want to invite people who are doing incredible things and who want a different industry for ourselves. And let's just kind of conspire together and build our own plan and then go out and do the work and come back and check in on each other and how we are progressing. Um, and then it kind of like now grew to about 350 participants annually, and I think we're always gonna keep it at that size because I think beyond that it kind of loses that um um the magic that I think this um community can create. So, yeah, we we have been doing it for the last five years, and Summit aspires to um create an inclusive and safe space for women um in Kofi to come together, um, where women can be the protagonist um of the whole event and where um we as women are highlighted for our successes, um stories of successes and sustainability, and not only defined by the hardships that we have in the industry. So it's it's it's um in itself a celebration of a sort of um great women doing great things. Um and um to me personally, it's almost like um like an annual event, like you know, like a wedding where you bring together all your favorite idols and people that you love and admire and spend the weekend together and learn from each other. Um and I think for a lot of people it has meant that like you know, it's a gathering where you can come and be yourself, don't have to hand out business cards, um, don't have to like prove your worth or yourself, but actually um being a safe space to learn, share your learning um and grow together.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

So and the summit is exactly what you described, like you instantly feel like you're just surrounded by friends and family that all have the same heart and are there for the same reason. But it also there's so many producers that are there. I've never been around so many producers before. And going to other summits, you are like just handing out business cards or like, yeah, this is what I do. And or even this last expo in San Diego is the first time that I've been at a cupping table where everyone that was cupping at the same time with me were women at one of the expos. But and the summit, it was like the whole room was women, and we were all sharing ideas. Um it's just very special and very beautiful. But at the same time, I I don't know what else to say, but it's like so inspiring what Beam Voyage has already become. But I'm excited to see where it's going to go to because it it isn't like, well, this is good enough. Like it doesn't feel like this is good enough. It's kind of bringing me back to like maybe I went to university with you and now we're all like trying to figure out what's the next thing we're gonna do together. You know what I mean? It has that energy about it in such a cool way.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I think we we are a very small team, as you know, and I do think everything that we do um is possible because of the community that shapes it. So people like you who um, you know, participate um at the summit, but also have been like, you know, in different ways has been influencing what we do. And we're we are um we like to talk about ourselves as an open book. We actually from day one have shared like our mistakes and what you know in our monthly newsletter, we try to share our personal reflections and everything because we really truly believe in the power of the collective and the community. Um, and that isn't you know in the most cliche way, but we want to be able to kind of like share our learning and be vulnerable with our community and also invite you to be part of it to shape it, shape who we are um and what we should be doing and how we could um what we could be um doing better. From the very beginning, producers have been shaping the way um we have um worked. Summit actually came the idea for Summit came about because we saw the big gap um in the expos. I love going to expos, and I think um the symposiums and um the coffee conferences have opened so much doors, so many doors for us as individuals and also us as organizations, like an organization. And um, people have just kind of like opened their doors and said, like, hey, what do you need help with? And have like, when we asked their um help, made that available. But then we also quickly realized that wasn't possible, that wasn't available. Those resources um that we, because we spoke English, because we're able to travel to those places, we're able to access, weren't um available to the women that we were partnering with um back in back in the day in only in Costa Rica and now in Mexico and other parts of Latin America. Um and I think that's where the the idea came about um of like we're getting so much from these places, um, and why isn't that happening in the, you know, why isn't that happening for the producers? And there were some logistical difficulty, right? Like their visa issue, obviously, um, even if you have savings, it doesn't mean that you can actually travel to the US um or other parts of the world um because of visa and just like the logistical thing that's out of your hand. But there are also like other elements around, you know, the language, um, how the event is hosted, um, the composition of people, who's in the room, and how um many times, and I think back to like my first expo and how intimidated I was, and I how like, you know, I just couldn't talk to anyone. I got nothing out of that very first expo because I knew no one. And and I think that's probably like how it feels. Um, and we know that's how it feels to be um coming to a big event for the first time. And if you know that's your only chance, you probably will try even harder. And it's not always gonna go in your favor. And then we kind of like then identify what were the gaps and what were the challenges that we as you know individuals face, and then went back to producers and asked their opinions and identified, you know, three big things um to be something that maybe we could change. Um, and we started with that idea. So, one is the the logistics of where it's happening. We need to do it in a producing community so it's easier for them to also participate, um, beyond being able to, I think, travel um outside of their own country for logistical reason or whatsoever. I think there's also other things as mother, a lot of the times you can't travel for too long because you have you know other duties at home. Um, you might have a kid and you have no one else that can take care of the kid, um, and you know, and so on. There are so many different challenges that they face. So that's we were like, okay, let's do it in a community where or in a in a city where um producers can easily travel to, and they don't have to take a day, you know, or two to just get to the place. And it maybe it will um it will um create a different dynamic. Another thing was um around language, how we wanted to make sure that they um women coming from coffee farming communities felt like this was their space, that they didn't have to like rely on someone else um to get their message or get their expertise or insights you know communicated um across. And that was quite simple for us to then say, hey, let's do it in Spanish, and everyone else, we have to wear the gear that it's always given to non-English speakers to have the simultaneization going on. So that was the um second one. And then the third one um is for one to feel like it's it's our own space. I think you need to be in a room with people who share your experiences. Um, and I think that was kind of like the from the very beginning, um, we put that into the design of the summit where 50% of the seats are always, always reserved for small older women coffee farmers. And that would mean that they're actually coming um on whether they're coming on a full or partial scholarship, we don't sell tickets beyond that 50% um that's available for others. And it's our responsibility and it's it's constant homework that we have to fundraise enough money to be able to give that scholarships for the rest of the 50 because you know we can't actually sell that tickets, but then I think that's a um fair and worthy challenge that we were willing to take. Um, and we will we are continuing to um assume that responsibility. And I think all these three things that have been kind of like the foundation of the design of the summit has created an environment that has been very different and unique to other um events and conferences, where I think we've attracted different sets of people also that are curious, and naturally then everyone that comes in shapes the environment and has so far has felt um has felt safe and inclusive, and we want to really keep it that way. And um I think for us as organizing community, we read a book together, um, and it's um it's called The Art of Gathering, and I think we've also shared it with our community of participants who've come um in the past. Um, and there is a quote about how sometimes you have to be exclusive to be truly inclusive. If you start catering for everyone, it actually doesn't become an inclusive space for those that um need to be actually included. And I think that's kind of like what we keep at the center of it is maybe we will say no to that toxic man in the coffee industry that's willing to pay you know thousands of dollars to come because sorry, we need to keep this room closed so that it's actually um safe for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah. I do think it's so important too. I mean, I feel like oftentimes I'm thinking about how much other people are able to, all the resources that someone else might have, like maybe this toxic man or even myself as a roaster, um, the amount of education and resources and everything that is in my area, where it's like this isn't necessarily always for you. You don't always get to be in every single space and every single room. And I do feel like what I'm seeing a trend in coffee, especially specialty coffee, is recognizing that, hey, maybe we need to give more education here or more resources here. Maybe it's not always about educating the roasters or the green buyers, maybe. Maybe it's about helping someone else down the line that hasn't had that before. And I think it's really true. If you include everyone, all of a sudden the the shape of the event is so different because you're trying to cater to that person and like why did they come here and why are they experiencing it? Versus like, well, it really wasn't for you in the first place, sir. More resources, education, celebrations for producers and for people that are doing a lot of the hard work up front that maybe haven't had those resources before. And if you don't create the space, they're not gonna get it right. It's always gonna be adapting to the person that might have more money.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

I think another thing about like the exclusivity and something something sometimes that I come back to and I I don't really know how I feel about it, is because I think at the end of the day, I also don't want it to be an echo chamber of like where all the women who come to the summit are those we already know what needs to be done. Um and I think what needs to happen is actually the um mindset shift in the in those, you know, in uh of those people who are not in the room, oftentimes who are in the decision-making power, like you know, position or whatnot. And how do we kind of like bridge that is I think something that we um and I have been personally thinking a lot about around like how do we maintain that safe space and um help whoever comes to the summit have enough tools um or knowledge or ways that they can come, they can go back to their own communities and they can go back to their own companies and really shift the mindsets of like others that they work with because one person having a vision is important, but it's actually not enough, right? For the industry to be more inclusive and equitable. And it's it's a very tiny segment that we are currently um impacting. And the goal is that this can go out to actually really make um real change that we want to be seeing in the industry that at the end of the day mean what shouldn't exist. I think that's something that we talk about a lot is as a nonprofit, we exist because there's a problem to solve, um, which is the gender equity um issue, like access to resources, um access to fair market and whatnot that women face. But hopefully down the line, we shouldn't exist. And and I think it'll just be for the celebration, the one-time celebration. We just come together to write each other. And I think I think that's a worthy reason, right? Um, but I think that's another element that like you know, how do we actually engage other people um like beyond this and make this a movement that's like bigger than all of us?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

But yeah, just wanted to I think it's like it's a very good conversation point because there is this side of like keep it safe, keep the people that are here that have the same heart, that have the same motive, that want to do this together, keep us all together. But eventually you kind of have to let that dude at least peek behind the curtain a little bit so he can start to sway his decisions too. I feel like it's one reason that it's so exciting to see more women in the specialty space. I mean, I only work in the specialty space. So whenever I see more women roasters or more women coming or just joining the table and starting to build that confidence, um, it's exciting because they're gonna have a ripple effect. It is like there's just too much passion for it to not have a ripple effect. I think maybe the thing that might step up some of the list is like, what's the first step in the right direction? Like I have this passion, I'm so excited, and I just went to summon and then all these amazing producers. What's my first step to help that ripple go past summon and help it get to the dude? I love this imaginary dude. I kind of feel like his name's Gary or something. Like, I don't know. Gary from SpongeBob. But um, like how do you how do you start to impact this man that maybe this doesn't matter to him? Maybe it is just like bottom line, whatever's gonna be cheap, but also give me that quality, you know? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

No, I think for sure. I mean, we know that coffee is a very market-driven industry, right? Like, I think every like just by economics of it, but also like the conversation, like how you if you talk to an importer, they will say, well, whatever the roasters are willing to pay, we'll be able to pay. Or what and then the roasters will say, Whatever our consumers at the end of the day are willing to pay, we can pay. Um, it comes down to that. And and I think we as individual consumers, and because we are not just coffee professionals, but we are also consumers at the end of the day. We go out, and I think coffee is quite unique where especially in specialty coffee shops, a lot of us go to others, like you know, those that work in specialty coffee goes to, you know, go to other specialty coffee shops and support each other. And I think it's a very common thing that there is a really strong community behind it. And I think we ourselves also have the power to really like shift that and not just live it to this like anonymous group of people, consumers, um, and say, well, whatever the consumers say, because I think, yeah, we can really shift it. Um, and for that to happen, obviously, um, living in comfort, everyone should be because I think I think the other side of the supply chain, right? Like the prices are also um, you know, I think it's always kind of like squeezed on um at the end of um both ends of the supply chain. And I think um we need to be having more conversations about how are we actually making sure that this this industry is thriving, um, and it's not dependent on um really like exploitation um on both sides of the chain. Like so that what's been on my mind a lot recently has been around like the living income for farmers and and I obviously like I've done two years ago a series of articles on living income because that was something that I was very curious about, and I interviewed a bunch of people from the producers all the way to the barista and kind of like cover like the overall perspective there um for the barista magazine, and I really enjoyed that like learning process. And we've been following the research that Anchor Institute, as well as the Sustainable Food Lab and COSA and few other folks, ICO included, have been doing. And yesterday I got to participate at the policy level um conversation that was happening in Mexico to really dissect what it means to have living income um in the coffee industry in Mexico, and that's what's like really fresh in my head. And I've been like, this morning I was talking to the team about like how do we actually implement that at our like you know, um organization and where are we um if we know the the current um living income um indicator for Mexico, how much more or less are we paying our producer partner because it's obviously different from um the sea market prices or the market prices at all, because it's actually taking into consideration the cost of living, inflation, savings, and all of the things that people need to survive and not survive but thrive on coffee. And obviously, there were good news around like how the the contracts that we've been able to um secure recently for micro lots, all of them have like surpassed by like I think 40 to 50 percent. But there are also larger lots that are like we are helping co-op close a contract for an importer and it's kind of like barely cutting it, and you know, maybe not um because the the bar is actually here and the market is only willing to pay you know whatever price um for that um going rate. So I think I think internally we've been we were then looked um discussing about how do we actually then set that as like a North Star for our monitoring and evaluations for our farmers and all of that, and how do we actually incorporate that? It's been something that I like am currently thinking about, and how the biggest barrier that I identified um in this discourse was unfortunately the resistance from the market. Um, and I think it's um quite still quite fresh um for everyone to be on board on, and they're always gonna get um a quote unquote better deal from another supplier.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

And so where where do you think that resistance comes? Do you think it's like not having education about what living wage actually looks like for producers? Do you think like where do you think that resistance is stemming from?

SPEAKER_01 42:48

I think maybe a combination of that, right? Like I think multiple factors, and one side is obviously I think not having had that education or visibility into like a data that actually exists and should be um used or like referred to for us to kind of like then say this is a fair price or not, because I think one way the market has been operating is like you have, let's say, coffee from Mexico and you are one of an importers in the country, and then you look at the offer list of another competitor that you have, right? And then you kind of compare can we actually sell this coffee at this price? Um, quite likely not, right? Because now you probably are like 50% or 100% more expensive sometimes um than what the C market is or however your competitors are selling for, and so forth. Then um, I think that's like what that one side. But at the same time, if you have the right tools, then to communicate that to your roster clients, and then the roster client then can also then communicate that to their end consumers, maybe that's where the the price shift can happen, right? Like, and I think we've seen that, like for coffees that have certifications. I think have that huge role of like convincing consumers quite easily to say you need to pay 20 cents more or what how much ever more of a premium because there is this data that I can now like you know share and that that's why the price is higher. And the consumers, as we talked about earlier, are willing to pay a bit more if there is like a clear evidence or clear, like you know, if you convince me as a as a seller that this is worth my dollar, I will. I think there is like enough consumers out there. But maybe that's like the education bit, but also the clarity of the data and how it's been communicated or how it's been turned into marketable product. Maybe it's something that hasn't happened, maybe it still remains as a big set of data that it's out there, and whoever cares will go out and study it, but it's not like yet digestible for the general public. And we know also that it takes a while, right, for a general public to pick up a single message. I think if you run your own brand, then even for I'm sure for a tiny sidecar, right? Like you have to talk about yourself so many times until people get what you're doing. And I think 10 years of BinPod, I feel like we're still pitching as if it's like born yesterday. We're still kind of like trying to get it out there, and and I think that's the reality. Um other thing that has been, I think, on my mind has been how many initiatives and quote unquote projects and um projects with good hearts um and whatnot have been done in silos, and so much investment has been happening, um, but at like one-off like manner that if you actually go visit the communities, the impact isn't necessarily long-term or sustainable. So, and that's other thing that we um, as special decop industry that's very enthusiastic, very passionate, have really great hearts, can do better at like, you know, not just kind of doing one-off or you know, we have this like great idea, let's do it. And doing it without necessarily understanding the bigger landscape of what's actually been happening in the same region. Is that like reinventing the will? Are we actually making an impact for every dollar that we're investing? Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

It is something that you said earlier of like sometimes the best thing you can do is start with asking and just be like, what do you actually need? And I completely agree with you. Like we have such big hearts, all of us do, and all of us, I think, want to move the needle somehow in the quickest way possible, I think, is some of our mindset. Like we have to change this, we have to make this better. What can we do? And I think we do kind of suck at talking to each other still, like bringing the community pieces together of the coffee world, like it's such big heart, such big projects. Everyone's like, we gotta make change, but sometimes we don't talk to each other to figure out like what someone has already discovered for us. And I think some of it also probably comes back to like there isn't a lot of data that's available that's really easy from a producer standpoint. Like someone that buys green coffee for a company, I couldn't tell you what livable wage in each of the origins is. And there's like points like that where it's like, well, I could be doing better as a buyer, but also until I started digging into like what I should be looking for, it wasn't something that was like laid out to me like this is something you should consider when you're buying coffee. It was kind of more on the side of like, how do you run your business so you don't end up in a bad way at the end of the year? And so coming back to it, maybe there is the education piece about what you're really doing when you're picking a certain coffee or over another, or something that you should look into that would help the supply chain in a different way. But again, I think it comes back to talking to each other. Because like if you're just thinking about your tiny business and like what I have to do to keep this thing afloat, you're not really thinking about what's happening on the other sides of the supply chain. And I don't know, maybe maybe we just need to talk to each other as a good starting place. Building some community, building some projects. I mean but projects in like a way that isn't just building projects to build projects and hope it does something. Like, I think something that Beam Voyage has done very well is there's impact that I think you can see by the programs and how you're helping people by allowing those people to dictate the programming, I think is different than uh how a lot of coffee thinks.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yeah, and I think we can definitely like improve in so many different ways. And I think one reason why, for instance, Summit like I think like looking back, and for us, it's also an opportunity for us to learn about what other people are doing, and we also want it to be a place where people who otherwise wouldn't be in the same room would be, and they can actually talk to each other. So um, some people might say because we quote unquote export, I mean I say quote unquote because we're not an exporter, we partner with local exporters to export coffee from the regions that we operate. But for you know, having an exportation program, it would be quite rare for like you know, it's odd that we invite local exporters to actually join and be part of the um part of the summit because you know, in the most strictly competitive mindset, I'll be like, oh yeah, that's our competitor. They're gonna come and steal our quote unquote clients or producers. And why should I open that door? But I think we're very intentional from the very beginning around. I think it's not only amongst the bigger traders, but also amongst the smaller ones that we don't like to talk to each other and we don't share. Um, and I think there's so much more, and for producers to also like see there's so much benefit that can come out of having all of us, all of them in one room. Um, one producer can ask how much all these services are in one room and compare and make that information like available, but also like just learning about what kind of initiatives that people are doing with given communities and how we can collaborate rather than compete and share resources and learning. And um, and I think I'll say that even amongst the NGOs, right? Like small NGOs, and we are an NGO, um, I think um we have been trying, um, and I think there are good enough number of NGOs now in Kofi that have been a lot more open about sharing um contacts, you know, connecting each other to the foundations that we've enjoyed working with, um, but also our learning and what we what worked and whatnot. And oftentimes um organizations will reach out to us to ask about our like what has worked when it comes to like market readiness initiatives, because I think that's like the hot issue for um many other NGOs out there, and then we'll openly share what worked and whatnot. And I think we expect the same, and it's been quite like um gratifying experience to be able to do that because then you can actually talk to the peers and um and and see how you can actually do better without wasting so much money and resources. And we also see that for producers who come together and ask each other how you know they treated a certain disease or sharing resources and their tips. And yeah, I think there's so much um that comes out of like having people who are like-minded and maybe otherwise in your own room, um and just having that space to get to know each other as humans before the title that we have as a is there anything else that you would like to share or any way that someone can help support Beam Voyage or the work that you're doing? Follow us. Um, I think we always make an ask to our community through our newsletter, different ways that you can get engaged. So if you have been subscribed to our monthly newsletter, I invite you to, and you can also do that on our website. In the very bottom, there should be a form um that you can find to sign up. Um, no, I think in general, we um I want you to stay just curious about your coffee. Um, and I think that's um and one thing that I even though we work with women-powered coffee, we also see it as like, you know, women-powered. Um, and that's kind of like one element of the broader coffee industry and how we can be more sustainable. Um, and you can, if if it's not a right, um, if it's not your cup of coffee at this point, maybe you can actually go out and support regenerative farming, you know, the coffee that comes from regenerative farm or that comes from, I don't know, organic or different ways that people have been like um making a dent um in the industry to make it actually sustainable and resilient for all of us to you know have coffee for the rest of our life. Oh, I think there's so many other initiatives, incredible ones, um and movement that's happening. So obviously we want you to also care about women and and I think everyone should, um, but at the same time, I think um we also don't want you to just limit yourself to just one thing, um, but actually see the bigger um side of um the industry and care about how the industry as a whole can be um sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

A huge thank you to Sangi for coming on the show and teaching us a little bit about being voyage, but also about being curious about coffee and sustainability and what that looks like in this industry. And also a huge thank you for you being here and listening and also being curious about maybe what that looks like for you and what moves you want to make. I think one thing that really stuck with me is this idea of conspiring together to make the industry better, and it it's definitely changed the way that I think about what all of our small roles are, and hopefully coming together to make a collective big change. Thank you again for joining me on Tiny Sidecar, and I look forward to seeing you again soon. Bye guys.