SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Sidecar. I'm Kate, your host in Sidecar Sidekick. And today it's a real one. We're talking about mental health. Not in a polished kind of way, but in a real human, sometimes messy way. Kind of like how it shows up in our lives and in this industry. Because honestly, behind every cup of coffee, there's a person. And too often we talk about the work, the quality, the supply chain, without talking about the people holding it all together. And today I'm really honored to be joined by Lucia Bowell. Lucia is the founder of Sana, an organization focused on supporting mental health and well-being within coffee communities, specifically women producers in Colombia. And what I love about this conversation is that it's not just about awareness, but it's about action. It's about what it feels like to really support each other and how we can start showing up in more meaningful ways. In this episode, we talk about building community, creating space for care, and why mental health needs to be a part of the way we think about coffee at every level. So wherever you're listening from, take a deep breath, let it out, settle in, and hop into the sidecar. This is Talk Mental Health to Me. I'm really so excited to have you. I feel like when I started Tiny Sidecar, so kind of roughly around the same timeline, it was last year after SCA in Houston, and I remember stumbling upon you and stumbling upon Sauna and immediately feeling inspired by the work that you're doing. Um let alone like the book that you created as well, is so gorgeous. And I feel like photographing and telling the stories of women in Columbia in the book We Belong is such kind of an interesting segue into what sauna has become.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So I've been thinking, like, wow, it's been a year. So how did this whole thing start? So I will say, like, I have to be so thankful to my like my photography like career, because I think really what brought me here is being a photographer, uh a coffee photographer. Um I feel like many times when we when we like see photographers as like professionals in what they do, we often think about the camera and the action of taking photos. But the more and more that I'm building sana, I realize that a photographer has to be a great listener, and a photographer has to see underneath people, like inside of people. Uh, and that's what makes a good photographer. So I will have to thank my like Lucia from like 10 years ago that decided to start to start working in coffee and decided to start documenting and photographing so many uh lives and places and and places. So the idea became real after I published my book We Belong because even though that became a tangible thing, the book itself, I feel that the journey of making the book and going back to Colombia and visiting 62 women, coffee farmers and pickers, and their families, and agronomists that travel with me and every everyone along the way, it really transformed me as an individual, as a human, as a woman. And I realize how much we need spaces where we can speak freely with no judgment, with a professional. That's really what makes this life easier or harder, right? To have like that support system and to be able to nourish our mental health. So I saw that need vividly in each of the conversations I had with the women. Um because I had so much to be thankful for for this women, I decided to do a pilot in 2023 to try to see if this was a need. If it was a need that it was not only my perception, but it was a real need. Um, most importantly, if they were interested and they were benefiting from this. So we did a pilot in 2023, uh, and then from there it was really, really obvious. It was like so clear that the need was there and that they were open to do this program, and and that the way that we designed it, like being virtual, it was the only way that this could be done. So that's how like Sana became a real thing after doing all of that. So it's like my journey in photography, the journey of creating the book, the pilot, when it finally like dawned on me, like wow, this is something that not only 39 women should get access to. All women coffee farmers deserve to have the opportunity to be in a program like this. And I switched my suits and I went from being a photographer to now being a manager, uh, being a program manager, a leader of a non-profit, not knowing everything about this world and kind of like trusting myself and my intuition and just making it happen. I think that's that's my motto, and it will continue to be my motto to make things happen.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I could envision myself in that moment of taking those photos and meeting those women and meeting their family and being like, wow, I've like made it. Like, this is what I'm meant to do, this is what I'm supposed to do, and how completely valid that stopping point would be. But how incredible that starting just taking those photographs and what it has become. I'm so excited to see where Sana's gonna go. But it's amazing that that project started this huge program.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, I am still like, you know, like I I constantly have to remind myself like this became a real thing. Like you stopped taking photos and now you're doing this. It was like a higher calling. Like I felt like there was no other person that could do this. Like I just felt like it has to be you, and you love photography, and you love being a photographer, and you were at the highest point of your photography career after 10 years of being a coffee photographer, publishing a book. That's when I started getting all the companies like calling me to do more assignments, and I was like, no, wait, I'm not gonna do that anymore. So, like the grieving process, I feel like it has taught me a lot about patience and also about how like life is unexpected, and and that's the beautiful thing about life, right? Like to just look at yourself in the mirror and say, like, I can be many things, I can I can pursue many things, and that's fine. I might go back to photography next year, who knows, right? But but yeah, it's it's been it's been so interesting to see it and now to see it grow. And uh, right before we start recording, I was mentioning for me, like I think what fills my heart every morning is just seeing how it has flourished and how my team is becoming so confident about the work that we're doing. And it's no longer my baby, it's our baby. And I think that's that's the only reason what I wake up every morning, and even when it's hard, I'm like, we have to continue to do this.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

So we were talking about that before we recorded, and honestly, that moment of seeing something that you've developed and you've worked on and bringing that to life, but then being able to give it to the people around you and the trust of giving it to your team that your team can talk about it. It doesn't have to just be you. I think that is an incredible pivotal point for anyone that's managing. Um, I know that when I stepped into a management position, the first like two years, I was like, no, no, no, I'll do it, I'll keep it all to myself. Because it's hard to give up that control and let other people contribute to it. But now that you're at that stage and you're starting to do that, what do you think are some of the benefits of letting more people talk about sauna and step into that role where they can also help represent it?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Well, what one thing that it like this letting go has taught me is that this program works because I feel like that control freak of me, like that side of me, was my insecurities. It's like maybe this doesn't work. Maybe this only works with certain types of women. Maybe there is much more that we should be doing. And that's why I wanted to do it all. And I wanted to be in every single call and in every single workshop and in everything. But when you realize I don't have the time, I have to trust my team. Now you go and do all the calls, I no longer speak to any of the women that are participating in Sana. And then you see that the results are even better. Sometimes you're like, this works, this works, and we have, and I have made the right decisions on hiring the professionals I have hired, and they understand that they care for and it's working. So for me, I think that that's one thing that has taught me like that letting go. And and that you're not the only one that knows the answer, right? I'm not a psychologist, and I always laugh because now people know me in coffee as a photographer. But for whatever reason, after creating Sana, like this is the like how powerful brain is, but people switch like completely and so quickly, and now I often get asked, Oh, so you're a psychologist. Like, no, I'm not. I don't want to be a psychologist. I love what I do, I don't want to be a psychologist, but uh, but yeah, I feel like that's what has taught me, like growing the team, and it's hard, but I think it only makes me a better human. Like I have to show up with a positive attitude, be responsible, be polite, empathetic. And I think Sana reminds me every single day that that's what I have to do, right? Like uh, and that's the beautiful thing I always say. Like, I wake up every morning, I feel like overwhelmed about so many things, but then I receive all the messages that these women are receiving daily too. So it's like uh I'm like educating myself daily as well. Uh, and that helps a lot because it always grounds me. Like, okay, you're doing, you're growing, you have to trust people, but uh, what about you? Like you go back and take care of yourself so you can be a better person to lead the team. So, yeah, that's that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

That's really cool that you can recognize that in that moment. I know that I think a lot of us have a hard time with giving other people advice and giving other people like, oh, you gotta take care of yourself and you gotta drink water and you gotta do this and you gotta do that. But when you're really busy or when you're really passionate about something that matters, like sauna, I feel like it could be really easy to not take care of yourself. Do you feel like with the team that you've created that you're you're kind of all in it for the same reason, where like you know how important the project is, so you have to take care of yourself so you don't burn yourself out. Is it kind of like a team mentality that everyone's trying to, you know, do the right work, but at the same time make sure that they're checking in on themselves too?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, I feel like that's so personal, right? Like I do try to bring it up and like make it part of like our our our values. So, like for instance, we like I've given like this is something that we set up since last year, and all the team has two weeks of vacations at the end of the year, every single year, and that's like a a thing that we're gonna continue to do. Um, and then the other thing is like be transparent, right? Like, if you're not feeling well, like I don't want you working and working like 60% and you feel horrible and you're because we're working with humans every single day. We're working with humans, there are challenges, there are issues. We have to be so patient with all the the women coffee farmers. So so yeah, that's definitely something that we always try to like talk about, but uh for sure, like there's so many weeks when I when I find myself like not prioritizing myself, not going and like having lunch and staying here and trying to do as much as I can. Uh, because we're humans, right? But I'm but I think it's since we work in this field and I get all the same messages that the women get, I think we are constantly reminded of that. So I'm like, wow, no, I gotta step, I gotta step out, I gotta do something for myself. So so yeah, Sana, like Sana means to be healthy, and I feel like that's always something that I tell myself, like we have to be healthy so we can support others. So, and I say this to my team all the time. But but yeah, it's sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's hard, and like you wanna do your best, and sometimes you forget about yourself, and and that's valid. But the important thing is to come back, to come back. I do therapy myself too. I have to, otherwise, I don't think I could like manage all the stuff that I'm doing right now. So so like finding time for therapy is hard, but I you gotta do it, right? You gotta find the time because if I'm advocating for for this program, I have to be a good example. So I think Sana has only made me a better human, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I think that transparency too is so important because I feel like it makes people feel like, yeah, we all are human. I think it's really easy to look. I think about this a lot. I mean, back at the Women Powered Coffee Summit, I remember chatting with a woman and she was speaking Spanish, and I'm not fluent in Spanish, but I was like picking up on some of the things that she was saying. And after she was done talking, the man that was sitting next to me that was translating for me, he was like, Oh, she was telling you about how she had breast cancer and how she had overcome breast cancer and was working with women in her area to um help them like learn early detection and what it means and how to support themselves and all of that. And I think, especially for myself, when I am working at a roasting company in a consuming country, I think we so quickly forget that everyone on the supply chain is a human. And like, yes, there's issues in the coffee world that we spend a lot of time talking about the issues in the coffee world and what does that look like for you and how's the farm doing and all of those topics. But very rarely I feel like do we have the opportunity to be like, how's your family? How's your health? Like, how are you? They're very stressful roles, right? And so um I think it's interesting to me to look at like the team that you've created around you with the psychologists that do work with the women. Is it interesting for them to work with female producers? Is this a newer experience for them or working with women that are in more rural areas? Like, what's that experience like as well?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, I think I relate so much with what you were saying because uh I feel like we need to speak more about like the human aspect of our lives. Um, like Sana, like all the data we collected, like most of the issues and challenges these women mentioned to us are personal issues or family issues. The percentage of like work issues is so tiny. So it shows that we have to spend more time figuring out all these issues that we have at home, we have within us, so we can create more bandwidth to then approach our work in a much better with a much better attitude. So I completely relate with you there. And in terms of the psychologists, um, I would say like 90% of them have experience working working with rural communities and women in rural communities, so they're used to, and then we have a small percentage that has no experience working with women in rural communities, which is something that I've made a conscious choice. I wanted like to have that diversity and see how it would work, right? Because sometimes when you're in it, you don't see and you don't have like that fresh mindset. So it's good when you have someone that comes from completely different context and background, and they're like, I see this, or we should do this. So for them, I think it's being eye-opening. The feedback I get the most is that they see so much progress in so little time, and for them that's been eye-opening because they're psychologists, they also believe that you need a treatment, you need to come for at least six months, but they are now big believers that not in all cases. Sometimes you just need two hours to be able to like have new perspectives to be able to shift things within you, and they've seen it so much with this with the participants. Uh, and the other thing they tell me is like, wow, I had to really dig deep to find tools that I haven't used in such a long time that came so in handy with these women, and Warren is art therapy. So it all it all comes back to the beginning of Sana because of course, like the idea was my idea, and I'm a photographer, I'm like, I love painting, I love all different types of like art expressions. So the curriculum has a lot of art uh within it, and now we're seeing that art therapy is the tool that these women are using the most, and it's the one that has helped them open up the most. So there's something to learn then. We we we tend to think that maybe art is not as powerful and it's just like something you do on the side as a hobby, but art is pretty powerful and healing, and it really lets us tap into our unconscious in in ways that we don't even understand. Like uh so so yeah, I would say like that's how the psychologists feel in San.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That's really cool that art again is coming up in this. And what is like what does the curriculum look like? So there's art therapy, there's individual sessions, what are some other things that the women might be doing in the program?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, so there are three buckets. So the first one is they have the one-on-one sessions with the psychologists, each woman gets two sessions. Uh, each of the sessions is an hour, and during that session, the idea is that they they have to find an objective uh for the two sessions so they feel accomplished after they finish the program because it's such a short time. So it's like, okay, we're gonna talk about this specific thing, let's figure it out. Uh, and the sessions are pretty like the like the psychologists have all the freedom to do it the way they want. But a lot of the activities they do is art therapy, uh therapeutic writing, a lot of meditation and breathing techniques. So we are really like leveraging a lot of wellness activities. We're even though all of them are um CBT, so cognitive behavioral therapy like psychologists, uh, they use most of like the toolkit they use is like super interactive and different. So that's what they do. And then throughout the program, they get an educational curriculum that we send daily through a WhatsApp group. And this content is interactive, it's short, easy to digest. There's so many different types of content, but the one that we have seen is really powerful and they really like it is therapeutic tales. So it's short stories between two to four minutes where we explore different topics and concepts. So grieving, uh domestic violence, um, not feeling confident and speaking in public. So for them, I think like listening to a story of someone else is not that we're telling you feel this way, you should change, or this is the way to do it, but instead it's like this woman had this experience and this happened to her that really has been um like they really feel it, like they they like it and they benefit and they understand complex topics that way. Uh, and then we have the community aspect. The community aspect, they start creating it through the WhatsApp group because we have different activities. We ask them to take photos, to comment, to send us audios. So they start like getting to know each other at a deeper level and then they meet in person at the end of the program. We have a worship where they meet in person, and it's really beautiful because a lot of these women know each other from the past, and you kind of know the attitude of person of people, right? You're like, that person is shy, that person is cranky, that person is like really positive. So when they see themselves at the end, they really pick up on the changes and they're like, wow, that woman never spoke before, and now she's speaking and now she's opening apps. That's so crazy. So that's how Osana works one-on-one educational component and community component.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Do you think with these women living close together and knowing each other that after the program's also done, they also have like almost a lifelong potential uh support system around them because they've all done this, they've learned the tools, they've gone through the program. Is the hope that they would then stay connected to each other?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, and I think it has happened. I think for sure this deep deepens and strengthens their relationships because they know more. They're they're they even feel more empathetic. We we hear this in all the post-program surveys in the feedback. They say, Wow, I didn't know my neighbor or that my friend had gone through all of those things. Like now I feel for her, I want to be there for her. So, so yeah, for sure. I think that's that has strengthened the relationships. Uh, and then in Sana, we have a Sana Global. So after they finish the program, we invite them to be part of this virtual space that is like even more like broader, because now it's women from all over Colombia, different ages, different programs, different regions, and we continue to interact with them uh within that program. So I think for sure they feel like they have a community now, and it's a community that is a safe space, and they are all in for the same reasons. So, so yeah, I I I do believe that they they feel more support.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

It's so beautiful. It's like this community already existed, but then bringing them all together and seeing each other in a different light and seeing each other in such a personal way after experiencing the program together. It's truly it's just very beautiful. Um do you think that so I saw on the 2025 report that I think it was like 70% of these women have ownership of a farm? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah, I think so. You might have like the numbers more fresh than me.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I might, but that's an impressive number of women that have ownership in the farm. Do you feel like these women, because they do have ownership, they might also be taking some of the skills that they're learning from Sauna to change how their farm works? Or I mean, I know that's maybe just like a really general question that we don't know the answer to, but it's cool that they're from a leadership position in the way of maybe this does, you know, have a ripple effect in their farm and the other women that are a part of the farm.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, I hope so too. Like from, and that's something that we've been working on because we want to continue to capture uh data about how they're doing and if they're seeing an impact from the the program. So that's something that we we're gonna start having, like that data, but from like just the testimonials, because yeah, we have all this like raw data and numbers, but we have a lot of qualitative data as well, like a lot of testimonials. I believe yes, because like the the like one that I always remind, like like I always remember, sorry, is a testimonial from a woman that mentioned Sana was that little push in life. I needed to find my path again. Now I have a much clearer understanding of my personal goals and my professional goals. And and I think like if that's what she got from Sana, and like many women mentioned similar things, like I was so lost, I feel so sad, now I see a path. Uh, I believe that they're executing. I believe that now they're finding ways of changing their lives and and maybe um pursuing like their goals because there is something in common among most of these women, and is that a lot of these women feel like they they settle with the life they have, even though they don't like it and they don't see any future, they don't see like not even a door that they can open. So when they do sign, I think that really makes them like so reflective, and they start like thinking about all the different options and all the different doors that once they finish, they're like, Oh, there are all these options. Like we have women that went back to university. Uh, and think and that this might be controversial controversial if you start talking with like a donor that it wants farmers to stay in the farm and keep continue to farm. But I believe like we should have the agency. Every individual, no matter where they live, what they do, we should have the agency to make the decision we want, even though if that means no longer producing coffee. So, so yeah, I do believe these women are becoming leaders and are pursuing what they want, and at least they're seeing a path.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

100%. It's such a game changer, too, to have that reset of being able to focus on what you want or what's going on in your body or what you need to work through. It's also interesting because I completely agree that agency, I mean, if we want producing countries to continue to produce coffee, then it's going to have to be people that don't just feel cripple crippled to be in coffee, but are passionate about coffee and want to grow coffee. And it's curious to see, like, yeah, they might go to university now, but who knows what that will inspire them to do. Or maybe it's not directly on a farm anymore, but maybe it's something like sauna that provides more support for people that they can stay in coffee and you know, support their community. So I just feel like that's it's really exciting to see these women that currently work in coffee, what could stem from that? And I feel like the more that I talk to people about coffee and what brought them to coffee, it's like sometimes you fall into it from a generational standpoint, but sometimes you have a wildly different background and you bring something else to coffee that is a game changer. And it's exciting to get people excited about what they're doing with their lives and who knows what they're gonna end up doing because of it. That's yeah, that's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah, and that's what excites me too. And I and I feel that um like look, we are talking about mental health and wellness program, and we haven't even talked about illnesses, and that's what I always tell people like we have such a misconception about what mental health is. Because like right now we're capturing information about possible diagnosis because donors have been asking for it. But to be completely honest with you, like we we already have a hundred women, and the percentage of women that might have a possible diagnosis is so so small that this shows that most of the issues, our mental health issues, are things that we can start working on it right now, and it's more preventative, it's more about opening up, is about like putting that burden like down, right? So, so yeah, I do feel that a lot of the change it is it is within us, and there's so many things that we cannot control. So, of course, like access in therapy is only for a few, and what we're providing is getting the access to people that maybe don't have the access for financial reasons, where they're located, they don't have the right professionals in those areas. But of course, like mental health support will not solve poverty, and that's something that we also are conscious of, right? Like we cannot solve the poverty, we cannot solve the price of coffee. That's something that we cannot do. But what we're providing these humans is to feel healthier, to feel fulfilled, to feel like they have hope. And then they can start making their decisions with more agency, with more clarity, and and with more with a with a better toolkit that they're themselves are building. It's not someone giving them all the tools, they're deciding what to use. So we always have to keep that into perspective because yeah, mental health support is not gonna solve it all, but I think it's a great tool to start building from there. Uh so I that's what I believe. Like when we talk about like gender equity, I always tell people like it has to start with mental health support. Because if we're better emotionally, and and we I use this term mental fitness, like when you have a much better mental fitness, then you can step into challenges, into issues, into like situations that are tough with a much better attitude, with a better mindset, right? With more clarity, instead of just like feeling overwhelmed, not knowing what to do. Um, and that's when illnesses become an like illness, right? So, so yeah, I feel like that is also important to say because sometimes when I speak to potential donors and stuff, like mental health, like that sounds so scary. And I say, Well, it's because we don't understand what it is, but uh but mental health is like the core of humanity. If we have good mental health, then we can be better humans and we can navigate this intricate and difficult world uh with more empathy for ourselves for others, right? So I think we need more of this, not only at the farm level, we need it throughout. Like since I created Sana, uh people have opened up with me more and more, of course. And I've talked to like CEOs of companies, baristas, and I I constantly hear this. I'm burnt, I'm born out, uh, I don't know what to do. I have so much on my plate, I feel like I have no purpose in my life. So there's definitely like um the same narrative throughout the supply chain.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like there's so much that comes from the starting point of just getting those skills and getting confidence and how that can change who you are and what you bring to the table. But it isn't just producing countries. Granted, like we talked about at World of Coffee, or while you talked and I listened, like there's such a low budget for mental health in communities, but even as big as the United States is, there's still a tiny budget. Um, and it's not maybe we're more accepting of mental health services. I don't know. I'd like your take on that too. But I still feel like a lot of us don't go to therapy and a lot of us just kind of trudge through and, you know, do the day-to-day and try to get by. And even though we're feeling burnt out or out of purpose, it's really, it's again one of those whole supply chain things that we're all in it together in that way. But I am curious in Colombia, is it more accepted to um potentially be working on your mental health? Is it something that still feels like we don't talk about it or more taboo? Um, what is that like working with female producers in Colombia and trying to get them to take a chance on their mental health?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah, I think we we look at it like from the general perspective of Colombia, of course, like the older population is like like more have mental health like more stigmatized and they're not so open. And then younger generations, I I have hope because I see like more and more people talking about it. There are a lot of like new uh companies that are providing like virtual therapy, and I think that has helped people a lot because they feel it is seamless, right? You don't have to leave your home, you don't have to tell anyone, no one is gonna see you getting out of a like a place where like there's a psychiatrist of psychologists and then you have to face your friends or your family. So I think people are doing it more, maybe doing it in silence, not like being so outspoken about it. So I I think that's incredible because that's only gonna make this conversation easier. But uh, but yeah, no, I think there's still a lot of stigma, and and I think it's because we don't have the the education and the knowledge. So I will definitely blame it on governments and on education. We should be getting educated about this at school as we learn math, as we learn physics, oh, these different subjects. We should be learning about emotional, emotional like awareness, right? Like we should be getting all this like toolkit. Like most issues in life is about emotional regulation or conflict with others. And if we don't have the right tools to manage those things, life is gonna be tough. Where are you gonna learn that? And that's when you like you feel that you cannot manage manage all the all the things that are happening with you, and then in the US, only 5% of the budget gets allocated for mental health. And seeing a therapist here is so expensive, even if you're making a good salary, it's so expensive. So, so I do feel like there is more that governments should be doing. So I wouldn't blame like necessarily like the coffee industry or the private sector. I would say governments should be investing more in mental health uh so we could have more tools. But um, there's something that I've been thinking more and more as Sana is growing, and I've had opportunities to speak about the work we're doing with women coffee farmers, and it's that we are thinking of creating some courses uh for people that work in the coffee industry uh for two reasons. The first one, so we have like a better understanding on how to assess if someone is suffering. Because I think sometimes we we don't even know, like that person is weird. Don't talk to that person, and and it's because we we cannot see through what's that that attitude that's like a shield, right? So we are we're creating a curriculum that we would like to turn into like a virtual uh course for any professional in coffee, and then the other one is having tools to to help someone and like contain this person if you were at work at the workplace. And I've heard so many people that work in cafes and they tell me with baristas like they had a uh panic attack, they had like all these different things, and they don't know how to contain these people, they don't know how to help them. So we we wanna create a course also to that everyone should should take, because we're always dealing with humans, and we if we have more tools to like support someone and know how to approach a situation that's gonna be like so so nice for the workplace, right? So that's something that we're working on, and hopefully we can release it in the future because because I feel like that we need to start the conversation. If the government is not doing anything, then we we will have to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Absolutely. I mean, that sounds incredibly helpful in both cases, and again, something that's so approachable in the workplace, where like even getting the conversation started, like the second that you start talking about, hey, how are we actually doing, or like what do we need to support each other? The workplace instantly is better than it was before that. And so just really straightforward tools that people can use that are like, oh, yeah, I get it, or maybe I don't struggle with that, but now I know how I can help you if you do. Because I think like sometimes we can feel intimidated by mental health. I think very much to your point, what a wonderful world it would be if we started in school and had just some more emotional intelligence that when we're older, it's less scary to talk about. Or if someone seems off, one of your friends isn't responding to you or something like that. How do you approach it in a way that's kind and you're able to show up for them? Because so many of us don't know about it.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, it's like when you were when you were describing this, it just made me think about like going to a specialty coffee shop for the first time. And then you go and like face like the the breeze, and they're like, What do you want? And maybe you get like a latte with like caramel and sugar, and they're like, that's not how you're supposed to drink coffee. Like you should have it in like, I don't know, a Kalida with this like really weird coffee and just black. And I feel with mental health is the same. We make we overcomplicate things when in reality, like we're all human, living human experiences. So all of the tools, all the conversations, the challenges are so similar. Uh, so we should not be scared of having these conversations, but for some reason we are like like in that um so we had the opportunity, you had the opportunity to attend a talk that I did during it during the World of Coffee. And I've been doing this exercise with every audience that I face because it's scary to be up there. So I like to make people part of the conversation, so I feel less scared. So I always ask them like this like rate your mental health from one to five. Uh, and like we give them like options and some questions so they can reflect before because when we think about mental health, it's not today, it's like at least for six months. How have you been feeling the last six months? And as you saw, most people say three, they're getting by. So, so for me, like that really puts us like everyone in the same place, right? Like, you might be thinking at this person that I know from coffee that always seems so happy and has like such a high role in a company, he he has no issues or she has no issues. But in reality, most people are getting by, getting by. And that makes me sad. Like seeing every time I face stages and I ask the same question and I do the same exercise, most of the time I get three from most people in the crowd. So there's something that we definitely are not doing. And what are we gonna do, right? Like, because if there are no like healthy and fulfilled humans in this world, then everything is gonna become harder and harder. And I think that's that that it shows a lot why the world is in the state it is right now. I think it's a lot about not prioritizing the human aspects of of who we are and prioritizing other things, right? Being productive, showing only a single phase of who we are. And so yeah, I think this conversation has to continue to grow. Who knows if I'm going to be the one leading? I would love more people to join it. I would love more organizations to come up. I would love people to start opening up more because we need it, we need it, like urgently needed.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah. I will say that at World of Coffee, I believe sauna is the only mental health moment that I had. And I remember saying it to you afterwards. I'm like, man, that was the first time in six months that I've been like, hey, how am I doing? Am I okay right now? And you know, life happens and life goes by so fast. And I think that we're programmed to just like keep going forward, just keep going, you'll be there. My husband actually points it out. I'm like, if I can just get through this week, if I can just get through next week, and he's like, You say that a lot. And I'm like, I do say that a lot, but I think we all kind of just get in that mindset. So even having that moment of like, oh, everyone in the room is just making it, just getting the battling. Okay, we're doing something wrong. But I love that at a massive coffee convention, there was that moment to talk about something that is very real to all of us. So I think that's what is interesting about sauna is that yes, it works with female coffee producers in Colombia, but just having the lecture and having that moment is like, oh, well, I'm thinking about my mental health. I'm thinking about what do I need to do for myself this week to reset. And I love that.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

I love that because I I love hearing that, and and thank you for sharing because that's the that's the reason why I did that lecture. The reason why I did that lecture is not to like pat myself in the back and what an amazing job you're doing with Sana. Everyone, give us money. The idea behind the whole session is to leave people thinking about their own mental health, thinking about what am I gonna change, how am I feeling. Because I like for me, that's that's what I want. That's that's the when you think about the future, I'm gonna die someday. What do I want to leave? My legacy. The legacy I want to leave is for people to be more conscious of who they are, how they feel, because I've struggled with my mental health for a long time. And I wish I had the tools I have now. I wish I had the confidence I have now to speak about it openly and not feel weird about it. So so it's lovely. It's lovely to hear that. And I will continue to go any place where they invite me because I want more people to come on board and start like asking themselves those questions, even if it's the for the first time. Like I had one of my friends that went to the lecture, he could only make like the first half, and he told me, Thank you. You just gave me like I was able to take a break in three days and do a breathing session that was so short but felt so nourishing. Thank you so much. I went back to the booth where I had been for the past two days, feeling so much better, and it's such a tiny little thing. So if we had more tools that we can incorporate and actually do it, do them, I think we can feel much better. And that's why I say I think we tend to overcomplicate things. We need to diagnose people, we need to give, like they need to access a treatment, we need to give them medicine. Yes, there's a percentage of people that do need that because they have reached that point. But where we should be investing is how do we reduce that? So people never get to that point. And we do more preventative care, we do more promotion. So people have all these amazing tools, and you choose what like agrees with you and you like, so then you're never gonna get to the point where you get sick. It's not fun when you have to go to a psychiatrist, it's not fun when you have to get medicated and you feel so weird, and that you feel like you're in a parlor universe and you cannot feel like everyone else feels. Um, and getting out of there takes so much time and work that yeah, my hope is that we can start giving people all these tools that seem so simple but are so effective.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah, I think you're there. Honestly, I think like I know earlier in the conversation, like, I don't know if I'll be the one to lead it. But just sitting here and listening to you talk about this and seeing the passion that you have for something that is so important for the coffee industry, but also so much further than the coffee industry. And hearing you inspire people, maybe even more than you think you're inspiring people, I just feel like you've found the thing you're supposed to be doing. I mean, it really, it's really moving and inspiring that your journey has gotten you to this point. And I'm so excited to see what sauna will become and where sauna will go. But like the fact that you started it and you brought this is so incredible for our industry. I mean, I just I really feel like there's going to be more people that are more involved in mental health and helping on so many different levels, and again, keeping that conversation going of how we can support each other, both as a producer, all the way to a barista, to even that customer. Like, if cafes are showing that mental health is important, then are the customers then realizing oh my gosh, like my morning cup means a lot to me. This is my only happy moment of the day, which so Many customers tell us. I'm like, that is a problem. Like I love that you enjoy your coffee, but it cannot be your only like happy moment of the day. Like, we need to be doing something different as a culture. Again, I love coffee. I love drinking coffee, but come on, we gotta have more than that. We gotta find the things that light us up, like you talking about sauna. Like people need to keep driving to find more purpose in their life because when people have that purpose and you can watch them have it, it's incredible. It is just like humans functioning on a different level, you know what I mean? And you can see it in people.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I see it with those women. Like, I that that's what I like. Thank you for saying all those beautiful things. And I feel like so like like grateful to to hear like that you feel inspired because uh I try, I try to pour all my love into this, but really I think the women that are doing Sana are the ones that continue to inspire me. Because if it's hard for me to open up the conversation and I have struggled with my mental health, and I have like five so much to make this into a real conversation, I can only imagine those women. Like in those communities, it's so stigmatized. And they're saying, Yes, I want to do it, and they do it, and you see a change. So I think they're the ones that are inspiring the most. That they're they're so secluded, like people are so biased. They think, no, they're they don't know what this is, they have no idea how to do it, they're not gonna use it, they're not gonna benefit it, and they're teaching us like they're ready, they know it, they're using it, they're doing it, they're making those changes, and they're teaching us that we need to prioritize ourselves, that we need to work on our mental health too. So, so I think they're they're the most inspiring ones.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Absolutely. The bravery that it takes to go into a program that is so stigmatized by your community when you live in a small community, like that can't be talked about enough. I live in a very small town where, like, literally you go into the grocery store and you know everyone, like similar is what I'm thinking, and then like doing a program that other people are like, what are you doing? You know, but just like trying it. And I can only imagine they have to be some of the most inspiring women. That is so cool. But women are cool. I mean, we have to talk about it more. Women are absolutely incredible. I think about it every time that I go to World of Coffee and hearing about the projects that people are doing and women are doing and what they're doing for their communities. I feel like I'm just hearing more and more come from females in coffee. And man, do I love being a woman right now. It's just like amazing to see what our priorities are and how we're changing the industry and what's important to us. Um, so I believe it. I believe that the women have to be incredibly inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah, and that's what we need to prioritize investing in women's, not only in women, not only mental health, but any field, because we are the ones nourishing this world. We're the ones taking care of everyone, we're the ones keeping this alive, we're the ones feeding and giving love. That's what women do. And I feel the same way. I I've I had a fight in my entire life not to like I didn't feel proud of be a woman. And and like through the book and meeting all those women and now having son, I'm like, I love being a woman, and it's hard, it's horrible sometimes, and you see all this like uh it's so unfair, right? Like it's so there are so many inequities, but you're like, but we are we continue to fight, and it's incredible. Like, I love being a woman, and I and I'm so proud of the women in the coffee industry too, and I have such a powerful community around me, inspiring women and and the the women in my life. I think like that's that's what brought me here. Like I am the person I am right now, and I have these skills because I learned those skills through my mother. My mom was also a leader, she had her own company, and I I do believe that you learn a lot by example. Uh, and that's why I think Sana it has a ripple effect because those women that are doing Sana are the ones spending the most time with the future generations, with the younger people in those communities. And I believe you learn by example. So if you see your mother prior prioritizing herself, if you see your mother managing and dealing with stress in a better way, you're gonna learn those things. So I believe this this has a ripple effect. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

So if you want to support sauna, or if I want to support sauna, what are some ways that I can do that? How can I be involved in supporting this amazing cause?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Super. Yeah, so if you're an individual, it's like really inexpensive. It's $27 a month. And if you donate throughout the year, you sponsor a woman. So it's $320 to sponsor a woman. And as you heard, it's not only the five months. They get access to this global community that they will continue forever to get access to and and receive content. So for any human, $27 that's like a breakfast. Like you really saturate. Like where I live, but I think like not even.

unknown 49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

So really, yeah, really inexpensive. And then uh, so that's for like an individual. And we have a lot, and we have a lot of people in the coffee industry that are doing that, and I love it. And I like I really I'm grateful for for those humans that are doing the recurring donations because that's really like a core way of like sustaining and maintaining a non-profit. The other way is like if you're a company and you're already buying coffee from a coffee community, and there are a lot of women in that coffee community, you can sponsor a cohort. So, same. The like we have cohorts from 10 to 40 women. So 10 women will be $3,200. Uh, and then the last one is the one that I am the most passionate about because I love community. So we know there are small companies within coffee, a lot of roasters and cafes that they're just beginning and they feel I wanna support Sana, but I don't, we don't think we have the financial like power right now to be able to sponsor a whole cohort. So we came up with this idea of running two campaigns in May and in October. They're our gift back campaigns. So those two months are really important for mental health. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and October is Mental Health Week and Depression Week, sorry, and International Mental Health Day. So, what we do is that we invite any of those small roasters or medium-sized roasters and cafes to choose either a drink from their menu or a coffee offering, and they donate 10 to 20% of all the sales of that specific product throughout the month back to Sana. Uh, last year we had our first uh give back campaign and we were able to raise $11,000. 17 companies joined the campaign. So we're hoping to continue to grow it. And and it's so beautiful when at the end of the month you see everyone that back you up and like all the money that you were able to raise. We even had companies that increase their sales on that specific product because the consumers say, I want to buy that one, I want to buy the one that is supporting mental health, that like that resonates with me. So that's the way that we're doing it. So we have one now approaching in May, uh, and we're like calling on roasters and cafes to join, and uh, people that maybe know uh owners of roasters and and cafes just to encourage them to join. Really easy way to do it. If you're a US company, you also get the tax deductible. So that's like a win-win. Yeah. And yeah, that's like three ways that you can support Sana.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

And where if I'm not in the coffee industry, but I want to like follow Sana or be like up to date on all the latest news, where can I find you?

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah, so we you can go to our website that is sanaprograms.org. And on Instagram is Sana underscore programs, and we are pretty active in the two spaces. We continuously update our website and also our Instagram account. And when you go to our website, you can also um register for our newsletter, and we do send a newsletter every month updating people about what we're doing, ways that they can participate and join. So so that way we can keep in touch.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I like your website is absolutely incredible. So easy to like find information and be in the know, but also your Instagram. I feel like the Sana Instagram is always sharing things and always kind of keeping things top of mind. So both are great outlets for sure. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Um, Lucia, was there anything that we didn't talk about that you want to talk about or anything else that you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Maybe the the last thing that I will say is something that you you kind of mentioned before, and is we love coffee, right? That it makes us so happy every morning, that first cup of coffee. Uh, and not to make it a sad experience, but I think it's it's good to remind ourselves before even thinking about the physical work that uh female and male uh producers do to think about them as human. When you're drinking that cup of coffee, think there's a hustler behind, there's a mother behind, there's someone that once was a child, there's someone thriving, someone is struggling. Because really, this brings us brings us so much happiness that happiness should be shared. And we should we should be investing and trying to support those people more.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Absolutely. I think that that's a a great morning picture because it is like I think the human aspect gets missed so often in coffee. It's like what's trending, what's hot, what's the varietal that everyone wants to try. And it's like there's so many hands that touch this coffee that you probably don't even know about. And we gotta talk about it more. We gotta, we gotta be talking about those people and sharing that level of happiness. You want them to thrive, you want them to be in a good spot. Um, totally.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Thank you so much for spending time with me today. It was such an honor. No, thank you. Thank you for giving me this space, and it's so lovely. I always say that's the greatest gift when people listen actively or are willing to open up these conversations. That's the greatest gift. So thank you.