SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi, hello and howdy, and welcome back to Tiny Sidecar. I'm Kate, your host, and Sidecar Sidekick, and this week we are jumping into a long overdue interview that actually dates all the way back to June. And if you remember, in June I went on a two-week little road trip through Wisconsin. The primary goal was to spend some time with family and celebrate my grandma's life. My grandma meant the world to me, so this trip was incredibly special to spend time with her sister and brother and really see family members that maybe I haven't even met before, and also trying to make it more of a celebration by spending a lot of time on coffee. And if you ask me, I'm not really sure why I've been sitting on this interview. Katie, who you'll meet in just a minute, was absolutely lovely and delightful to talk to. Wonder State Coffee is a beautiful roasting company and also a gorgeous cafe. And the people are just so welcoming and so friendly, and just like felt down to earth and cool. You know, like there's no reason to not have shared this. Other than I think there is a sentimental piece to this interview, and even listening back to the conversation, and Tiny Sidecar had just started at this point, just trying to figure out how to do what I wanted to do with the podcast, and like totally feeling like I was in over my head. Um, even in this interview, um, I think my mother-in-law called, and I didn't realize that when she called, she like kicked off the microphone, and so like we talked for like 10 minutes and none of it was recorded. Like little baby podcast moments like that happened. Um, which here's the thing: I feel like we all know that when I started this podcast, I had no business starting a podcast from the sense of like I'm not a tech person, I didn't like the sound of my voice, I wasn't like, I have no like interview background, journalist background, nothing. And the whole reason for starting this is really building community and connection and elevating stories in the coffee industry from women, spoken by women, hearing their side. And I think that when I did this interview, a lot was happening for me. I really wanted this to be successful, and I also really, you know, was going through some emotions of, you know, coming to terms with the fact that my grandmother had passed away, and just like wanting some happiness and joy after a difficult year of experiencing that. Um and there's just like a lot that all was happening, starting tiny sidecar, really throwing myself into it. Um so anyway, listening back to this interview and listening back to like where I was when it started, I'm kind of grateful in the sense that I'm getting this opportunity. And the thing about Tiny Sidecar, even is like if you would have told me a couple of weeks ago that I would feel this way about it right now, I would have been like, no, no, I'm not there yet. And the thing about it is I'm coming off fresh off the women-powered coffee summit, and that was a life-changing experience for me. And the way that I got to see how important it was for women all across the supply chain to tell their stories in their language and in their voice, and the way they wanted to tell it, and how validating it was to spend time with women, knowing that all I was doing was creating a space, and that's all I really needed to do. Um I think that's all that I really needed to learn when I went down, and I learned so much more than that. And so I guess what I'm trying to say is I just came from an experience where the whole purpose of Tiny Sidecar really was reinforced, and now I get to look back on this interview with Katie, who is just like wonderful and amazing, but me as a baby podcast person not knowing what I was doing, and just seeing the amount of growth that this space has already made in the first you know, half year, and where we're going to go with it, and just like the whole point is giving people a place to hear other women's voices and to hear their experiences and you know to get that representation that like you can do this too. And it doesn't matter where your background is, or it doesn't matter where you start, or if you're scared to do it, just to do it. And anyway, now we're gonna take a peek back at June. In the midst of fall, we're heading back to June, so let's buckle up and get right into it, shall we? Now, as a reminder, my parents were on this little road trip to Baroqua with me. Baroqua is a few hours away from my hometown, and my dad and mom had just recently gone to, maybe even just the day before, gone to the Stone Creek Coffee Tour with me and wanted to tag along. So we headed out of my childhood home early in the morning, drove a few hours, and ended up at the Wonder State Cafe. Beautiful little cafe in Baroquo, Wisconsin, has maybe the best chocolate cookies I've ever had in my life, but also La Tierre was gorgeous, the staff was incredibly kind, and it was just a quiet and chill morning to sit back with my parents, really experience something special together, and have some nice solid chats. When you're in the car with your parents for three hours, you'll talk about just about anything. And one thing that was brought up in the conversation, and it's these moments that I think are really special, is my dad um had asked me, he's like, you know, when you first started talking about tiny sidecar, I was a little like turned off that it was just for women. And I don't know, I think like you're excluding so many people by just focusing on women in the coffee industry, and I was a little confused why you were doing that. And during that conversation, we were able to have just like an open talk about how there's such little representation of women in the coffee industry, even though women are present in so many places, and women also aren't present in so many spaces. And having a podcast that's dedicated just to elevating women's voices and leaning into women and showcasing that leadership and growth and hard work already exist amongst women in coffee is all this is about. And that if you want to listen to men in coffee talk about coffee, you can find that on so many other podcasts. And the point here is to make women not only hear each other's stories but also make it easy for us to find each other. Which was a special conversation, and I think it was the first time that someone had asked me that question, and I think my dad and I have really grown in our relationship over adulthood, especially, and being able to ask honest and open questions, especially when one of us is confused about the other person's viewpoints, and I think it's a way for us to grow and learn together, and so I just remember the beautiful like rolling hills of Wisconsin, um driving through those and having that conversation with my parents and really like my mom's perspective on it and her understanding immediately, but my dad not, and that's definitely part of the point where I feel like as a woman it's really easy to see spaces that are made just for us, and how special and how easy it is to look at that and be like, yeah, that's rare. And for a man it feels a little off-putting when not everyone's included. Asking the right questions when you don't understand is definitely the way to move forward in the world, and I think that we're all learning that from each other every single day. Um but it is just interesting how different the genders see things simply because the life that we've lived. I think when you're used to always having a seat at the table and always having a door open for you, it feels really weird when all of a sudden there's something that excludes you. And I think when you are so used to pushing for that place at the table and standing up and being confident and throwing yourself out there, it's really easy for you to recognize when there's finally something for you, if that makes sense. So after we have a couple coffees and really settle back into the car for another short drive down to the roasting co, my parents end up dropping me off, and it's here that I meet Katie for the first time in this gorgeous tasting room. And I think it's also of note that the fact that they even made time for me to come in and meet with Katie for just a short period of time was incredible considering I think they had a health inspection that morning, and I think we all understand how terrible health inspection days are. It's just stressful. Not that any of us are hiding anything, but you're always like, Am I hiding something? Um so anyway, I was beyond grateful that they let me just join them after that was all done. And the tasting room is absolutely gorgeous. There's even walking up to the building, there's just wildflowers on the whole path up to Wonder State. Um, you can see all of the solar panels that are right next to the building, and being able to like walk through their roasting room, see their roasters working, and how they do coffee versus the small roasting company that I work for and how we do coffee, it always blows my mind because I don't think that they're doing that much more or less than I do during my weeks, but their systems are so different, and so it it's fun to see and learn from how other people are creating and the functions and workflows that they work through. So especially for we haven't even talked about this, but they are the roaster of the year from Roast magazine, and that's an incredible accomplishment. So just being in their space and how welcoming and again, like just beautiful, wonderful people and calm. It was like a calm time considering everything, but a gorgeous facility, wonderful people, and I remember drinking delicious coffee. And without further ado, let's meet Katie, the director of operations for Wonder State Coffee. Have you ever been on a podcast before?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I have never been on a podcast before.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Honestly saying, up until four weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

You have they're a big dreamer, and I'm stoked to be here with you on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

I need you to know that you look like and kind of talk like one of my very, very best friends back home in Jackson.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

So funny and not a new notion to me. You're like the fourth person in the last. I don't know what's floating around in the ether, but I've gotten that a lot in my life and also very recently. So I don't know what I'm giving, but I think you're giving like comfortability that people are like you feel like a long time friend. I'm so glad. I have you ever seen the movie Past Lives? No. Um, there's this cool Korean concept that when you meet a person for the first time and you feel that familiarity, you've met in one or thousands of your past lives, and I feel like I don't know, maybe we've met before. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it's kind of like I like that idea.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, I like that a lot. So one thing that I like to ask people is what is one of like your first, either like your first time that you had coffee or a person that you think of when you think of coffee. Um, an example that I have is my mom, which this is chaotic, but my dad, I grew up with him drinking coffee every morning. And she would let us go to the grocery store. And do you remember it was the company is Door County coffee, but they had like pre-ground flavored coffee, and she would let me and my brothers pick the coffee off the shelf and like sniff it, and then just decide whichever coffee my dad was getting, which is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I was five. Yeah, you get what you get. She's vanilla glazed donut. Yes. This is for you. But do you have a memory like the first time that you really recognized what coffee was?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah, I think um it's fun. My story starts in two places, I like to tell people. And the first is that my dad um was a very passionate, like hobbyist gardener on the side of life. Like that was the one thing he poured himself into outside of work. And I think because of his interest in plants and how things are grown and like appreciating produce, he somewhere along the way decided it'd be really fun to roast his own coffee at home. And so when I was little, probably like 10 or 11, my dad started ordering coffee from Sweet Maria's. And I think that was the first time I ever um started ordering green coffee from Sweet Maria's, and that was probably the first time I ever like connected the dots that this thing in your cup is uh it starts as this agricultural product thousands of miles away, and it doesn't even really look like none of us would recognize green coffee, I'd say a lot of consumers wouldn't. Um so that was a cool thing to be introduced to when I was little, and then the second I'd say nudge towards coffee and the love of coffee is that my mother's parents are both of Swedish descent, and so I grew up in a very like fika-loving um household, so we'd have an afternoon coffee and pastry. I have a chronic sweet tooth that I can probably attribute to that. Um uh but yeah, when I was little and like spending holidays at my grandparents' houses, we it would always be coffee on the table after dinner or like in the afternoon with um a loaf of cardamom bread. Like I had very fun. Coffee was around always growing up. Um and also something that was like out of reach for me as a kid, as a um as the youngest of five siblings. I feel like I was very aware of the things that my older siblings could have and I couldn't. And whether that was coffee or alcohol, as I was older, it was like, no, Katie, you're not old enough to have caffeine yet. Like you've gotta wait until you're 14, or I don't know what the magic number was, but that also made it like uh, ooh, this is shiny and a thing that I can't really have yet, and because of that I loved it before I even really grew to appreciate the taste. But yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

I I'm also the youngest in my family, and so I can really lean into that. Like my brother's always got to do something before me, and it's cool that coffee was that thing of like, I want to be an adult now, I want to have it too. I'm old enough.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

It was like a sign of maturity that I yearned for as a little kid. Like, I want to have my morning coffee with dad before school.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Honestly, what a like sweet memory too of just wanting that. Also, your dad roasting coffee when you were a kid, that's so cool. Yeah, yeah. It took, I was an adult when I like actually clicked in my brain that coffee was a crop. And like when I used to think about coffee, I'm like, you go to the grocery store, you get it off the shelf, it's done. You know, like you don't, or at least I didn't really think about what happened before it. So you having that when you were a kid is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, thanks, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, thanks, Dad. Um, but now that you're not a kid anymore, you can drink your coffee, which is amazing. How did you get to Wonder State?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

What yeah, what brought you here? I have a very interesting and windy um like professional path over the last decade or so. So I um when I first went to school, I um thought I wanted to be an engineer. Like everyone told me, oh, you're good at math and science. You can either be a doctor or you can study engineering. And so when I was at school, I studied systems engineering um and thought that I really wanted to work in like the developing world. So I wanted to apply that background to um either development economics or working with a nonprofit like USAID, or um, you know, I wanted to be working in some sort of socially leaning industry, um, but I didn't know what. And a lot of my classmates that I graduated with um went to work as like management consultants or manufacturing engineers, and I um it took me a while to really figure out what that meant, I think, professionally. Um, and along the way, I bocked around from working in genetics and helping a company develop their first direct-to-consumer diagnostic genetic test. Uh, felt that I didn't really want to narrow myself in the world of genomics, and so jumped from there into um uh working for a neat company called Biolife that operates with this parallel business model where they're selling recreational products and goods. Like if you live in Jackson, maybe you've seen our plants or solar panels REI before. Um, but not a lot of people know that they actually use uh profits from that side of the business to help develop and distribute small-scale solar energy home systems for folks in emerging markets. Um, so Violet also has an office in Kenya and like a really big footprint in emerging markets in Eastern and Sub-Saharan Africa where they're distributing those types of products, which was really cool. But again, I felt I think like there was a sort of ceiling in the role that I was operating within there. And so all along this journey and sort of whittling down, like I know I want to work for a social enterprise and with some sort of product that's doing good in the world, but I don't really know what. Um, and I left Biolight to work for a company called 60 Decibels that spun out of a big impact investment fund called Acumen. Um, so at 60DB we were designing and implementing um social impact surveys with folks in uh that work with smallholder farmers all over the world, but also with folks that operate in microfinance and renewable energy. Um but a lot of that work felt I felt really distant from like the folks on the ground that we were listening to, which is ironic because our the whole point of working with someone like 60 decibels is to hear from the beneficiaries that are being impacted by your program or your portfolio of companies. Um But yeah, I I for better or for worse felt sort of disillusioned with uh the quote unquote social impact space and like it was still just a bunch of a bunch of people sort of deciding where to put their money and their assets, and I lacked like being able to lift this cup and taste the coffee and think about and get to work with like the producers that are are um responsible for caring for the plants that helped us get here. Anyways, long story short, I decided that really wasn't it. I thought it was gonna be a dream job and a dream sector, and um and had watched some close friends and family members of mine have really um inspiring and sort of life changing uh experiences. Jumping from a corporate role and world into the food and beverage industry. I was living in New York at the time, and my partner quit his job to work as a chef in the city, and it was I think incredibly challenging, but also like some of the most rewarding work that he had ever done, and I felt really encouraged to take a similar leap and was like doing some deep introspective reflection and realized that this product that I care so deeply about really sits at this neat intersection of all of these things I've been like trying to tie together selfishly in a professional aspect, my whole adult life. Like when we talk about coffee, we can talk about climate resilience and also social justice and art and politics and it's this incredibly vast global value chain. And at the same time, Kate, whenever I tell someone I work in coffee, like they immediately were thinking and talking about a shared experience that we have, and it's this like super accessible um product and connection that like a lot millions of people around the world share. Um, and I was like, that is such a cool industry. And I had the chance to chat with some folks and friends in New York that work in and around coffee and was feeling really inspired and on a whim because I had grown up in the Midwest and spent a lot of time drinking Wonder State, previously Kickapoo coffee, um, and feeling really inspired by their mission and vision, like not just making really beautiful coffees, but also caring a lot about the producers and being vocal and intentional and transparent with their supply chain. Um I was like, I'm gonna reach out to them and just see if someone wants to chat with me, not even with the intention of um of coming to work here. And long story short, that ended up in me working on a couple projects uh with the team here at the roastery, and um now we're sitting here today. So it's been a whirlwind of a couple years, but I'm feeling really, really grateful uh to be here and um yeah, I just like continue to be wowed and blown away by like the passion that people carry, and um like the depth of knowledge of folks in the coffee industry and their kindness and warmth, and like I think I come from worlds of tech, and even in the impact space, there's a lot of like maybe tribalism is the wrong word, but like competitive nature. Um, and I don't feel that in coffee. I feel like people are generally like really welcoming and eager to share their knowledge and connect with folks, which is cool. So happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

So cool. I feel like you having that drive to have impact in the world and help people, and the fact that it's brought you to coffee is so cool. And I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like the coffee community, there's like a shift that's happening. Um, and I've even felt it over the last few years of how more and more people are just trying to do what's right and be better in this larger world community, and you find just the coolest people, and more and more people are drawn to coffee. I I doubt that this is still correct, but a few years ago there was some statistic that was like one in five families, like their income is through the coffee industry somehow in the whole world. Which I'm like, if you think about that, that's a massive amount of the world is affected by this one industry. So the more passion that comes to the coffee industry, I think we can keep doing more and more good, but also it's always like that center, like everyone knows what coffee is. You know, no matter where you are in the world, like you know what coffee is and you have memories with it, and so it's such a good social driver because of that.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

People can connect with the product, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

It's so cool. Um, so what's your current role at Wonder State? Yeah, I am um currently the head of operations at Wonder State, so I um have the honor of managing uh the folks that work in our coffee department, and that includes roasting um and secondarily production on the production floor. That's roasting, packing, fulfilling, shipping all of our orders to customers. Um, and then the third is oh my gosh, you're gonna have to blank this out. Cafe, cafe operations, which I can't believe I'm forgetting to tell you because it takes up a chunky portion of my brain and heart and energy. But Wonder State operates three, owns and operates three cafes in the state, and so Cafe Ops is also in my wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah. Um I know you're not supposed to pick like favorites, but do you have a favorite cafe of your three? Um maybe we don't put this one in either.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

No, I love they're all different and I love them for different reasons. I think uh the Veroqua Cafe is really special just because we're so close and and because the community that lives in this area and this town is like they really rally around these cool third spaces that exist in town, and I think it's because they're kind of few and far between. Um so it's like it's a really special space, and people in the community love and adore and are really encouraging and sort of rally around that cafe, but they're all special.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah. That cafe is stunning. Um yeah, I was lucky enough to go and have I had a matcha, which matcha is just crazy right now. Everyone's having matchas, and I'm not a huge matcha drinker, but I'm like, I have to be a part of the trend, obviously, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

RD. It's also, I mean, it's a it's if not directly a part, it's definitely a it's has an impact on the coffee industry. Absolutely. You can't ignore it.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah, had a matcha, had the blueberry flat white, which was so delicious. Sweet.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah. You're catching it on the the end of the spectrum. It's a it's a beverage that's going away soon and will be replaced by um some new cool custom drinks that are coming around for the summer. I love a custom drink. I'm glad you got to try it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Um, I was talking to a barista a couple days ago, and I was asking her what her favorite drink is, which I'm gonna ask you too. But um, she was talking about how she loves specialty drinks. And I think for a while in the coffee industry it was like, you have to be a snob, you have to drink your espresso straight up, you have to like try to pour over. And I do love doing those things, but I really am loving how creative people are getting with specialty drinks and housemate syrups and all the little garnishes that people are putting. It's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

You can't ignore it, you can say that it's not your favorite, but I think to be in and a part, a healthy part and contributor of in the coffee industry, you should be enjoying a specialty drink every once in a while. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Do you have what's your typical drink order? And is there a drink that you're excited about that's coming around the corner?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, you spoke to this already, but it's funny being semi-new to coffee. Um, there is a lot of like, there are a lot of preconceived notions about what it means to be smart and sort of uh, you know, to know a lot about coffee. And I think one of them is like you mentioned, like your favorite drink needs to be a pour over or a type of filter coffee or um like a straight-up espresso, and I shamelessly love a cappuccino, and I think um I was really lucky to live around the corner from a really cool multi-roaster cafe in Brooklyn that I think pulls some of the best espresso shots I've ever tasted, and it's so fun to experience a coffee like that. Like they would be putting funky naturals and like really um intense, like fruity coffees on espresso, where I feel like historically that's a no-no, and you shouldn't be doing you shouldn't be making espresso and milk drinks with coffees like that. But Villager did that really well, and it has changed my mind about what is possible in a cappuccino, and so yeah, I a cortato or a cappuccino are definitely like my go-to. Um I love a cappuccino.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I just love some like fluffy foam on a drink.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, it just hits right sometimes in the afternoon. Again, with the figa note, but like a little 3 p.m. cappuccino and a and a croissant. I don't know, you can't go wrong.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Honestly, the chocolate cookie that's at the cafe, your cafe, yeah, is insane.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I'm glad you like it. It's so good. Yeah, yeah. The other drink I have to tell you about that is a recent favorite of mine, and it's because Wonder State does it really well, is um we make an epic espresso tonic. Oh, yeah. And um, that's a drink that like never in my life have I ordered really regularly, but Wonder State uses um uh a sweet tonic made by a local, like local to Wisconsin purveyor. And um, if and when you're in town next, you should order one of those at a Wonder State Cafe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I go, I'm like kind of hit or miss with uh spritzers or tonics. I like sometimes they hit so well, but I do think it's like has to do with what espresso they're using. Totally. Um and so I've been dabbling for sure. For sure, but that's probably the only coffee drink that it really can be hit or miss for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Um but especially if the tonic is like the one we use has a number of cool herbs and interesting ingredients, and I can see how if it's not done right, it can be not so great. Yeah, but it sounds like it'd be like the most refreshing thing in the world.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

So it's on a summer day. Yeah. Other than fun drinks coming up, what's something that you're really excited about with Wonder State? So obviously you guys won Roaster of the Year, which is insane and epic and so cool. Um, but knowing that Wonder State, I'm sure, isn't just like sitting back and being like, we did it, like what's the big piece that brought you here? Or like as you're looking towards the future, what are you just like, yeah, that speaks to us.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

That's yeah, I think selfishly, and you'll not be surprised to hear that I think what drew me to coffee is still what is most exciting to me, and I think it's um the impact part, the impact-focused part of our work here, and I think um I feel really lucky to work with a crew of folks that have built a brand and a mission that is really impact-focused, Kate. Um, and I think we've also got a lot of work to do. So we care deeply about our supplier relationships, and I think I'm really excited to like um build out the infrastructure to prove it.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Now, remember earlier when I told you that my lovely mother-in-law called me in the middle of this interview? Well, unfortunately, this is the moment that she called, and we lost the rest of the interview. But what Katie goes on to talk about is how Wonder State wants to build kind of a code of conduct for how they work with producers and what they're hoping to see and do with producers. She also talks more about how they're in the throes of um getting a B Corporation certificate and just how to take the structure that they've already started and continue to build on it to create more good in the world of coffee, and really to take that impact side of her past, which is astounding, and to bring it into coffee at Wonder State. I am in awe listening back to this interview with Katie and really one just like the comfort of being around her in that moment, but also listening back to this um interview and how I feel like I could just listen to her talk about her passion and what she wants for the future literally all day. Like I think that she has an incredible start to her career underneath her, and I'm really excited to see what further impact she makes, because I just think coffee needs more people like her doing coffee. Um and again, I think I'm so lucky to be listening back to this and be in a completely different state of mind after meeting more women in the industry and building this community at Women Powered Coffee Summit. I mean, the way that I'm just connecting with some of the things that she's talking about and her perspective is just even more powerful now. And I'm like incredibly grateful that this is how I got to spend my evening is reflecting on this conversation with her and also how I can't wait to quite literally talk to her again and just learn more from her. I think um people like this in the coffee industry are so needed, and I hope that you're taking from our conversation as much as I am, because I just I'm truthfully in awe of the people that coffee has called to coffee, and um yeah, this is a special one. But anyway, that is Katie from Wondersday, who is the director of operations, um just an absolute gem of a person. I feel so lucky that she was the second person I ever interviewed, and I just feel really lucky that Wondersday and even Stone Creek Coffee, both of them just were so open to letting me come in and chat with some of their staff and help build this little thing called Tiny Sidecar, and as always, I'm so grateful and happy to have you along for the ride. So many, many thanks for my past interviewees, my future ones, and everyone in between. As for what's coming up next, next week I'm gonna be going more in depth about the summit and my experience before crashing into many an episode of interviews and segments from attendees and presenters at the Woman Powered Coffee Summit. Um, the next handful of episodes I think are gonna be just as special as this one. I'm just really excited for you to hear more stories and more perspectives from women in our industry. And if you're a woman in our industry and you want to share your perspective, as always feel free to either send me a sound bite or request some time and we can hop on a call together. Um, my email is howdy at tiny sidecar.com, and I cannot wait to hear from you. Uh, this was another really special one, and I'm so excited for what's to come. Thank you so much for being here as always, and I can't wait to see you again. Bye, my friends.